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A comeback for the Pioneer?


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#21 Sloan

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 07:17 PM


Kummant said the rail passenger corporation would weigh the feasibility of all or part of the long-distance route between Tacoma, Wash., and Denver.

First off, why Tacoma???? Either it goes all the way to/from Seattle, or its western terminus would be Portland, where there would be connections with Cascades trains.

Secondly, this means service would be restored on the Transcon across Wyoming, rather than meeting the CZ at Salt Lake City as it once did. Of course, there will soon be frequent rail service between Ogden and Salt Lake City (FrontRunner), so there would be a rail connection available.

Moving to the DMU issue, I agree that a DMU-equipped trip is better than none at all. However, unless CRC is manufacturing DMU diners and DMU sleepers, that is going to be a rough trip, especially if the DMU's run as far east as Denver and as far north as Seattle. If it goes Salt Lake City-Portland, that would serve to fill in the long standing gap in the Amtrak map. I don't recall how the schedule was before the Pioneer was discontinued, but I would venture to say it would include one overnight.


Kevin, looks like Bombardier has responded to your wish. Alas, not here, but in China.

http://www.railwayag....shtml#Feature5

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#22 EvergreenRailfan

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 07:54 PM

If it were adopted here, I bet it would have to be diesel, and probably need soundproofing to avoid keeping the passengers awake.

#23 Sloan

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 11:36 AM

http://www.idahopres...m/news/?id=1539

#24 EvergreenRailfan

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 12:46 AM

I wonder if this request from the City of Boise might make it easier for the Pioneer to serve the city if the train was restored?

STB Boise-Cutoff restoratin request by City of Boise

#25 Sloan

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Posted 15 November 2007 - 08:50 AM

http://www.argusobse...7a052266875.txt

#26 KevinKorell

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 07:36 PM

From the Seattle, WA Times, 11/19/07:

ONTARIO, Ore. — The Amtrak appropriations bill in Congress calls for a study of restoring its Pioneer Route, which traveled through the Columbia Gorge and Eastern Oregon until it was shut down in 1997.

Your story appears here.


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#27 Sloan

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 10:51 AM

http://www.ktvb.com/...o.19e62164.html

#28 Dakguy201

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 02:24 PM



By the way, do the people at Beech Grove, if they had the funding, have the skills and the ability to produce the Superliners themselves? Just wondering, might provide some options for new equipment.


While I believe it is time for someone to start to build a modest number of Superliner-compatible cars each year for a number of years to come, I would be very concerned if Amtrak Beach Grove (or anywhere else) were to attempt it directly. Amtrak simply has too long a record of ineffectual management and an unproductive labor force to be entrusted with the task.

If a manufacturer could be assured a steady flow of orders over the period of years, I believe there are several companies that would be interested. To accomplish that would require both Congress and the Administration to abandon the current annual funding dance and make a long term commitment.

#29 EvergreenRailfan

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 03:44 PM


If a manufacturer could be assured a steady flow of orders over the period of years, I believe there are several companies that would be interested. To accomplish that would require both Congress and the Administration to abandon the current annual funding dance and make a long term commitment.



Just like it is a good idea that Washington State Ferries does not have a drydock big enough for their biggest boats at their Eagle Harbor base. Apparently they came up with this idea from the airlines, i.e. private sector that one size fits all will solve their problems. Problem is, it required the relocation of one terminal on Whidbey Island, to accomodate the bigger boat. Now I hope Amtrak does not wait as long as WSF did to replace 4 1927 Vintage Ferry Boats. It was another round of inspections and repairs to fix a hull corosion problem that had WSF just retire the boats, and wait for Olympia to fast track replacement. It worked, the bill sailed through the legislature pretty fast. That and they are taking some funding for beraucrats at WSF HQ and shifting it to the new boats, as well as terminal repair budgets. The terminals can be fixed later, they will not be serviceable anyway without boats. Just like the Airlines have prefered manufacturers, such as American and Continental have bought only Boeing planes in the last 10 years, and for the most part, Northwest is buying Airbus(being a Washingtonian, I say darn traitors, although I do admit, they had the best fare for the time when we were buying a ticket to go to D.C. lat year. It was the 757-200/300 to get there, came home on A320s), and since Day One of the Streamliner era, Burlington preffered BUDD cars, WSF had a preffered shipbuilder, and sought to try to disqualify several other area shipbuilders from bidding. That put costs up. I was listening to a podcast of Inside Olympia, TVWs Public Affairs Talk Show, and they had a debate among the Transportation Committee chairs and ranking members. Rep. Clibburn(D-Mercer Island, 3rd term in a Republican District, on the Eastside of Lake Washington) mentioned that there was one constituent that said, why not just privatize WSF. Even though 50+ years have passed, they never got rid of the private sector model that led the Puget Sound Navigation Company to bankruptcy in the late 1940s, and state takeover in 1951. One thing? Not sustaining their fleet, the newest boats at the time were used SF Bay boats, even the streamlined, one of a kind Kalakala. Apparently, they had some departments that could have been outsourced to other divisions of the DOT, or the private sector, including Vessel Design. Since the basic design has not changed much(other than adding an extra passenger deck on one class, loft lobe car decks on three classes(with the inner space on the main vehicle deck able to accomodate semis and RVs), and a small solarium deck on the newest class) since the Evergreen States of the late 1950s, I would say that department is redundant.

Any new Amtrak rolling stock should have a baseline outershell, but don't keep the number of floorplans down due to cost containment. Maybe it might work for a Diner-Lounge on some routes, but others still might work well with a traditional diner. Maybe something like the slumbercoach might work for an Economy Sleeper today, but the Deluxe Bedrooms of the Superliner bring in more revenue. The small windows of a Superliner Coach work good for short haul travelers, but on the long haul, where scenery sells tickets, wraparound windows like the old dome cars, and the ultradomes of Colorado Railcar would work better. Now a Genesis works good on some long-haul trains, but on short-haul trains, a Genesis could be overpowered, like on a TALGO train.(I have seen a few times where a Genesis was pulling one). On some routes, a DMU might work better than Locomotive-Hauled Rolling Stock.

One thing that might help revive the Pioneer, is possibly people who would drive to Salt Lake City from Boise, Pendleton to the Willamette Valley, or from Cheyenne to Denver(assuming that Cheyenne can be served by the Pioneer), is the fact gas prices are rising. 20 cents a gallon in two weeks here. It was looking like it would see regular drop below $3.00 a gallon here. Now when the Pioneer was discontinued, Gas Prices were very, very low. I think it was like 97 cents for regular around here. In fact, around here, the biggest complaint was car tabs were too expensive(they were, 2.2% of the Vehicle's value, formulated not on the Blue Book, but the depreciation schedule based on MSRP, I heard it was called the Red Book, or soemthing like that). The voters dealt with that one, and now one part of the state is paying a big price for it. Nothing like I told you so.(I thought the tax was too high, but abolishing it was a bad idea). Then again, whether it is rail or maritime, deffered maintenance does not mean it will fall apart immediately.

#30 KevinKorell

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 05:48 PM

I guess we're assuming that a revived Pioneer would take the route across Wyoming (rather than splitting/joining the California Zephyr in Salt Lake City). The fact that it would serve Ogden (but not SLC) is made a lot easier with the soon-to-be existence of commuter rail service between SLC and Ogden. Even if the calling times are not all that great, I think it could be worthwhile for FrontRunner to run a trip to meet the Pioneer to/from the west coast for SLC passengers. That said, I don't think future Pioneer passengers are going to see more than just the skyline of Cheyenne, from 10 miles away. Although Amtrak does it to serve Tampa, FL, I don't think the passenger count at Cheyenne would make a long dogleg move worthwhile. And during our fest trip last summer we observed that the station at Borie was removed (assuming the ridership warrants a Thruway connection).

Edited by KevinKorell, 23 February 2008 - 05:56 PM.


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