42 replies to this topic

[KevinKorell]

A suggestion for the Chief Rail Fest: Make St. Louis the homeward overnight rather than Chicago.

The connection at KCY between the Chief (ar 7:24am) and the MRR (dp 8:15am) is iffy, at best. If a late Chief misses the morning MRR, then the only option is to wait at KCY until 4pm for the evening trip to STL. Since there is a later train from KCY to STL, Amtrak likely will not hold the morning MRR more than a few minutes for a late Chief.

With the plan to move on to Chicago on the same day as departing KCY, the misconnect at KCY then compounds to a failed onward connection to CHI at STL requiring an unplanned overnight at STL and rebooking the onward leg to CHI for the next day. It also fouls any hotel reservations in Chigago which, depending on the terms of the reservation, could cause a loss of any deposit. In other words, if the Chief is late into KCY, the manure hits the fan blades for the rest of the plan.

If an overnight is planned STL, with the onward trip to Chicago the next morning and same day connections at CHI to east coast trains, then a misconnect at KCY between the Chief and the MRR only results in the loss of the transit rides in St. Louis. The planned hotel stay in St. Louis is still good. The next day onward reservations from STL to CHI are still good. Plus, since STL through CHI to eastern destinations is continuous, an AGR award reservation could handle the trip, maybe including a roomette and meal on the Texas Eagle to CHI.

Just a suggestion.

Looking at this further, it appears that in order to ensure being able to do transit rides in STL, the only reason for going there (otherwise coming back ABQ-CHI we would just remain on the Southwest Chief), we would have to stay overnight in BOTH St. Louis and Chicago. If we intentionally book #314, and then get shunted to #316 if the KCY connection is missed, it means having to wait potentially 7 or more hours in Kansas City, a city without any rail transit. Maybe we could watch grass grow or paint dry there. If we book #316, forcing ourselves into the long wait, would they let us ride #314 if the connection is made? Odds are with such a large group the number of seats available could be limited.

On the St. Louis end, taking #314 would pose no problem, as the light rail trips could easily be done in the afternoon and/or evening, we'd stay there, and then could depart next morning. #316 comes in way too late to see anything by daylight, even in the summer. But the big flaw with the Lincoln Service/Texas Eagle schedule is that 3 of the 5 trips leave STL before 8 AM, and then there is a 7+ hour gap until the next train at 3 PM. Said Train #304 would get into Chicago well after the Cardinal & Capitol Limited departures, and way too close to the Lake Shore Limited departure to be guaranteed.

So if one gets into STL at 9:40 PM, there's no time to ride Metrolink that evening, nor the following morning if we wanted to take the Texas Eagle. So it means a long day in STL, taking #304, plus an evening in a hotel in CHI, plus the next day doing things in Chicago before the eastward departures.

So the schedules do pose problems that would require more overnights to ensure we can accomplish our goals of riding certain transit. At the same time we'd have a longer stays in KCY and STL; at least at the latter there's more to do. In STL we have the newer Cross County Metrolink (Blue line) a definite goal, but there's no problem killing time riding the rest of the system in Missouri and Illinois again. I wouldn't do the Arch again, but there are other things to see and do along the light rail lines and downtown.

Another alternative is TWO nights in hotels in STL, which would allow us to arrive on #316 the first day, stay over, fulfill our transit obilgations over the next entire day, and then on the third day depart on the northbound Texas Eagle (#22/322/422) in order to easily make connections to the east.

Edited by KevinKorell, 29 April 2011 - 01:13 PM.

[steve4031]

This is doable if no conflicts with cardinals schedule. Union station Marriott often has good rates.

[KevinKorell]

This is doable if no conflicts with cardinals schedule. Union station Marriott often has good rates.

That assumes people will be taking the Cardinal and it's running that day. I'll assume it will remain thrice-weekly until I see it running daily with my own eyes. The new departure time of the Capitol Ltd. is not much later than the Cardinal, so that would leave the Lake Shore which is almost a sure bet. But how, Steve, will we be entertained in KCY?

[BillMagee]

This is doable if no conflicts with cardinals schedule. Union station Marriott often has good rates.

That assumes people will be taking the Cardinal and it's running that day. I'll assume it will remain thrice-weekly until I see it running daily with my own eyes. The new departure time of the Capitol Ltd. is not much later than the Cardinal, so that would leave the Lake Shore which is almost a sure bet. But how, Steve, will we be entertained in KCY?

I'm thinking that Steve meant the St. Louis Union Station Marriott, and the "Cardinals Schedule" is the home game schedule of the St. Louis Cardinals which can impact the cost and availability of hotel rooms.

[KevinKorell]

Sorry, one track mind! I was thinking train Cardinal, not baseball Cardinals. Of course the same is a consideration in any city. In recent years we had home games during Fests in San Diego and Seattle, but managed to avoid the crowds by being at the far end of a transit line when crowds were heading to the games. I don't think we had any issues with hotel room prices or availability due to teams being in town. And Chicago has 2 teams to worry about.

[KevinKorell]

Earlier in this thread (third week of April) we talked about a possible North Carolina/Virginia Fest, which would include taking the Piedmont, as well as the light rail lines in Charlotte and Norfolk. I then looked at increasing it a little bit.

There are now three scenarios.

First is Charlotte then Norfolk, then home. The very late night arrival back in Northeastern cities based on when #66 gets to Philadelphia and New York made this look unattractive. However, one could get off #66 in Washington, DC, stay overnight there, and continue northward on an Acela or Northeast Regional train the next morning. Hotel stays would be required 1 night in Raleigh, 1 night in Charlotte, and 1 night in Norfolk, and an optional one in Washington, DC if not taking #66 all the way home. Amtrak travel would be a Silver Star day trip, a Piedmont day trip, a third day trip involving the Carolinian and Northeast Regional, and a final northward trip on Northeast Regional (optionally breaking up this trip with a stay in Washington).

Second one would involve Jacksonville. It works out best if JAX were done first, and then we go up to Raleigh and proceed from there like the first option. Under this scenario, no hotels would be needed in Jacksonville nor Raleigh, since we would get to the latter the same morning as we would depart on the Piedmont. JAX would be a very long day, but two nights would be spent aboard Silver Service trains. Hotel stays for this option would be 1 night in Charlotte, 1 night in Norfolk, and the same optional stay in Washington as above. Amtrak travel would be an overnight trip on the Silver Meteor to Jacksonville, another overnight trip on the Silver Star to Raleigh, a day trip on the Piedmont, another day trip involving the Carolinian and Northeast Regional, and a final northward trip on Northeast Regional (optionally breaking up this trip with a stay in Washington).

And the third option that we discussed in the last month, and I believe in one of the Chat sessions, would be to take the first option and build onto it a Fredericksburg trip on Virginia Railway Express. Whether part of this Fest or not, the only way to do it without staying there overnight is to take VRE southbound and return on Amtrak. Aside from involving Amtrak Train #66 (which the previous two options still include), we can also do this by taking the midday VRE train from Washington to Fredericksburg, and then return on Train #80, the Carolinian. Being the last event of the Fest, those going to the Philly and New York areas could just remain on board this train and get there a lot earlier than #66 would. This option would involve an added hotel stay in Washington, DC. We could have an optional Metro ride in the morning to fill time, or just sleep late and meet at lunch. Hotel stays required for this option would be 1 night in Raleigh, 1 night in Charlotte, 1 night in Norfolk, and 1 night in Washington. Amtrak travel for this option would be the same as the first option, except the northward trip on #66 would end at Washington, and there would be another northbound trip the next day on #80 after Fredericksburg,

The revamped homepage has links to these three options.

How do we feel about these 3 possibilities, and are we set on Charlotte/Norfolk as the core for our 2012 activities? Opinions welcome here, but of course it provides the basis of discussions in person this summer at the SERF 2011 event. And what to call it? It sounds like we may have another SERF on our hands .

[steve4031]

I like the Jacksonville part. Gives us more train time.

[KevinKorell]

I like the Jacksonville part. Gives us more train time.

And as important, this option requires fewer hotel stays, which is a plus with Raleigh since the pickings are poor. And no hotels required in Jacksonville either, as we had issues once before with a shortage of affordable rooms.

But there can also be some pro's found in other choices, so I'd like to hear other "trains" of thought!

[steve4031]

I looked at all 3 options, and still like the Jacksonville one the best. However this would work best during my spring break or during the summer. It would not work in January.

[KevinKorell]

It would not work in January.

No, this isn't intended for January. Daylight would be too short for the activities planned to be enjoyable. Right now we're looking at this for summer 2012, the same week(s) we usually do things in July. It's too early to know how hotel rates & availability might be in Charlotte and Norfolk in the summer of 2012, but as a test one could plug in some sample dates at their favorite hotel chain for the period this year we'll be involved in SERF 2011 and see how things look. An alternative for Norfolk would be Virginia Beach, which has many many hotel rooms along the Oceanfront. I'm not yet sure however if HRT will run an express bus connection between the eastern end of The Tide LRT on the Norfolk/Virginia Beach border, and the VB Oceanfront. The Amtrak bus does continue beyond Norfolk to Virginia Beach a couple blocks from the ocean, so it might be useful to some in one direction. However hotel rooms by the beach in the summer may come at a premium.

The three itineraries don't yet include days of the week, but there are restrictions. If we chose the Fredericksburg option, the VRE trip has to be on a weekday. Likewise, the Jacksonville option requires us to be in town on a weekday to ride the Skyway. The rest of the Fest could be built around that, most likely to include one weekend. The other thing dependent on the day of the week would be Amtrak Regional #95 from Richmond to Newport News. On a weekend we would have to take Regional #99, which operates almost 2-1/2 hours later, resulting in a much longer layover in Richmond and a much later arrival time at respective hotels in Norfolk (or Virginia Beach). So next week I'll work out which days of the week will work for each option.