Jump to content


Photo

NYC Transit Immediately After 9/11


  • Please log in to reply
22 replies to this topic

#11 AlanB

AlanB

    Member

  • Global Moderator
  • PipPip
  • 2166 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens, NY

Posted 15 September 2006 - 07:31 PM

KEVINKORELL
Member #69826, posted 09-16-01 10:40 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan,
Thanks for all of the updates. I understand it all, but I pity the New Yorkers and visitors who are already having trouble understanding the system, especially since the recent Manhattan Bridge changes. And now a new temporary map has been drawn for a while. More is coming in November with the 63rd Street Tunnel changes.

Can you tell if the Q replacing the R is using the 60th Street tunnel or the new 63rd Street tunnel?

------------------
Kevin Korell


Alan Burden
Member #69828, posted 09-16-01 11:26 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin,
Yes I'm sure it's going to be a very interesting morning for commuters. Especially since I have not yet heard any of these changes on TV yet. When the Manhattan Bridge changes went into effect it was a circus, as was noted here on the BB. That time there was also lots of warning, media coverage, and the change went into effect on Sunday not Monday.

Worse I was out riding the trains today and I saw an MTA poster that directly conflicted with what I posted regarding the 7th Avenue line, although it did concur with the rest of my report. However, based upon what I observed and a few other web sites, I went with what I posted. In an effort to see how accurate some of the info flying around has been, not to mention the info I’ve been providing, I took a ride on several lines today. I am working on a report of my observations, but have not yet posted it.

In answer to your question the Q will be using the 60th Street tunnel, which is the normal route for the R train. This is also one of the reasons it’s running local, as the Q express would be blocking access to the 63rd Street tunnel at 57th Street where that train is turning. About 8-10 years ago they removed the switches and about 20 feet of track that would have permitted access to the 63rd Street tunnel from the local tracks upon exiting or entering the north end of the station.


Alan Burden
Member #69833, posted 09-17-01 06:55 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here’s the latest as of Monday night.
Those who chose to bring their cars into Manhattan encountered massive delays, for example the Lincoln Tunnel still had a 2-hour backup at 9:30am. Normal for that hour would be at most a half an hour. However those savvy travelers who choose transit, from all accounts, did quite well.

Amtrak and all commuter railroads encountered no major delays that I’ve heard of.

Even the dramatic and widespread changes to the subway seemed to work well. Again I have not heard of any major problems, nor mass confusion like was caused with the Manhattan Bridge reroutes. It is also possible that this type of news was just over shadowed by the events of recent.

I can tell you that as I took the number 7 to one of my clients this morning, there were almost constant announcements on the PA system listing the many changes. At almost every station I could here the announcements when the doors opened to board passengers. With a few exceptions most of the media were reporting the correct changes this morning.

For those who might like to better understand the current routes and re-routes within the subway system, the MTA has released a revised subway map. Please note that you must have the Adobe Acrobat Reader installed on your computer in order to view this map. If you do not have Acrobat Reader you can click here to obtain the program.
Clicking here will take you to the subway map.

They have also released a very nice and detailed map showing the lower Manhattan routes and stations. This map also gives you a very clear picture of where the lines run in relation to the location of the World Trade Center. Once again you will need Adobe Acrobat Reader in order to view this map. Please click here to view the lower Manhattan map.


There are no new updates regarding the reopening of closed stations or lines.


Path continues to run it’s rerouted service and again seems to be doing well. I have heard that rescuers did manage to reach the WTC station. Sadly there are no survivors in the station. No word on how many, if any victims were found. The report specifically mentioned, “There were no survivors found within the various air pockets within the station”. This would leave me to believe, that as suspected, damage to this station is extraordinarily heavy.


NJT buses while running are experiencing delays into NYC, because of the heavy backups at the Lincoln Tunnel that I mentioned above.

The Staten Island ferry resumed passenger service this morning, but no cars are being allowed.


Special note, about the above post. The map of the subway in lower Manhattan is still available to this day on the MTA's website. Therefore anyone who might be interested in looking at some of the details more closely can click on the link directly above, which I have enabled, to view this map. Remember you must still have Adobe Acrobat installed on your computer to view the map.

KEVINKORELL
Member #69840, posted 09-17-01 10:30 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are also some extra and rerouted ferries being run. For example, the NY Waterway ferry route that normally goes from Hoboken Terminal to World Financial Center is instead running to Pier 11 which is on the East Side on the other end of Wall Street.
I believe some Staten Island Ferry boats are being used to run from the Whitehall Terminal to somewhere in Brooklyn. There are special shuttle buses meeting the ferries on the New York side, since there is no 1/9 or N/R service available.

------------------
Kevin Korell


Alan,

Take care and take trains!

#12 AlanB

AlanB

    Member

  • Global Moderator
  • PipPip
  • 2166 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens, NY

Posted 15 September 2006 - 07:33 PM

Alan Burden
Member #69841, posted 09-17-01 11:12 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin,
The fact that they are using the Staten Island ferry boats for the new service, would explain the reduced frequency on the Staten Island ferry.

The special ferry service is operating from Pier 4 in the Brooklyn Army Terminal at 58th Street and 1st Avenue.

I havn't heard of any special buses, just two normal routes that run in the unfrozen zone, the M15 and the M103. Plus there are still 3 subway routes running in the area.


KEVINKORELL
Member #69866, posted 09-18-01 11:39 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One change that that was made today, but does not yet show on the redrawn map effective 9/18, with the Chambers Street-South Ferry line "lost indefinitely", the 1 and 3 have essentially changed places, with the 3 now terminating at 14th Street and the 1 now running to Brooklyn and serving the line to New Lots Avenue.
Alan, now that they have written off the 1/9 line below Chambers Street for the forseeable future, it would make sense to run those 5 trains that terminate at Bowling Green around the outer South Ferry Loop and continue to serve that station. What have you seen in the stations, are there red and white notices all over the place? Are they changing the overhead black signs on the platforms to show (for instance) the Q along Queens Blvd. or the J on the 4th Avenue Line in Brooklyn?

------------------
Kevin Korell


Alan Burden
Member #69880, posted 09-20-01 07:59 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As of Thursday morning the Wall Street station, on the 4 & 5 line, will reopen. This now means that all stations east of Broadway are open. All stations west of Broadway within the frozen zone remain closed.


Alan Burden
Member #69905, posted 09-21-01 08:22 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin, my schedule this week has not brought me to Manhattan very much. Other than Monday, today was the only other time I was in Manhattan. Based upon a very limited sampling of stations I found the following, and Grand Central was the only major station.
The only service change signs that I saw were for normal routine late night and weekend changes. The only time that I saw a notice regarding the re-routes caused by last week’s events was during my journey last weekend, which I described under the Miscellaneous Travel Items and Trip Reports section.

I did however find, at both my local station and at Grand Central, a one-page handout listing each train in the city and describing its current route if any. They also continue to make almost continues announcements on the PA at each station, describing the various changes. They seem to have split the list in half doing A-M in one group then following up with N-Z plus 1-9 in the next announcement.

The one station that I rode through, that does have a change of trains is Queensboro Plaza. This station on the 7 & N lines, where the N has been replaced with the W, did not have the overhead black signs changed. It should be noted that this station was already serving both the N & W trains, since the changes caused by the Manhattan Bridge construction. That may be why the signs still listed both the N & W trains, especially since I would expect that within a month or two services will resume on the N & R line in lower Manhattan, even if all of the stations don't reopen right away.

Finally even if I weren’t already a train fan, I would have to say that trains continue to be the best way to travel around NYC. With 2 tunnels still closed and one partial bridge closure, plus constant inspection of trucks and vans at most crossings, using your car can greatly increase your travel times. It took me an hour and a half yesterday to get from Queens to New Jersey, via the Triborough Bridge and the George Washington Bridge. This is a journey that should take no more than a half hour; at the time I was traveling 10:30am.


Alan,

Take care and take trains!

#13 AlanB

AlanB

    Member

  • Global Moderator
  • PipPip
  • 2166 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens, NY

Posted 15 September 2006 - 07:34 PM

KEVINKORELL
Member #69917, posted 09-23-01 11:41 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan,
I have been reading that the C trains may soon be reinstated, with the E trains being turned at Canal Street (one stop short of Chambers/WTC). Won't they have to go on the express track to be turned there?

------------------
Kevin Korell


Alan Burden
Member #69919, posted 09-23-01 12:29 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin,
I haven’t heard about that one yet. However there are two ways to accomplish this. The first and easiest would quite simply be to allow the E train to pull into the WTC station. As you will note from my report “Journey Through A Changed Transit System”, a good portion of the station is undamaged. I suspect that the remainder that I could not see, at least as far as the tracks are concerned, is also undamaged.

While it is most unlikely that the public entrance which butts up against the WTC complex is usable. I think that the rest of the station is in working order. Were it not for the fact that they would not want a train dropping a group of people right next to “Ground Zero”, they could probably restore revenue service here right now. This is also the reason that the Chambers Street station & Park Place stations remain empty. Remember that the Chambers Street station on the A & C trains, the World Trade Center station on the E, and the Park Place station on the 2 & 3 trains are all interconnected and within a few feet of one another. Note that I used pre-disaster route designations.

If however my assumptions about the WTC station are wrong, then there is another option. After dropping off the final passengers at Canal Street, the downtown train would pull out of the station and cross over to the express/Brooklyn bound track. Approximately two hundred yards later, after the downtown local track has passed under what were the express tracks, there is a short lay-up track. This lay-up track is positioned in the middle of the two-track trunk line going to and from Brooklyn. It ends about 50 feet or so north of the Chambers Street station on the A & C line.

After reversing the E train would return on the uptown track, and enter the Canal Street station on the express track. Immediately after leaving the station, just like the C train, the E train would cross over to the uptown local tracks and return to it’s normal route.

Not only would be impractical to reverse the trains in the Canal Street station on the express track, since you would delay other trains heading to Brooklyn, there are no interlocks to permit this operation prior to entering the station.


Alan Burden
Member #69928, posted 09-23-01 07:17 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The MTA is confirming that the C train is indeed returning on Monday. The E will indeed make it's last stop at Canal Street.
Kevin, I'll have to wander by on Tuesday to see which of the two methods they are using to turn the trains.


KEVINKORELL
Member #69963, posted 09-26-01 06:30 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Good news, as posted on website of WCBS radio in New York:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(New York-AP) -- A city Transit spokesman says the Chambers Street station on the 1 and 2 lines re-opened today. The station is near the World Trade Center and trains had passed by the station. They're now stopping to pick up and drop off passengers. The Chambers Street station on the A and C train lines remains closed with no estimate on when that will re-open for passengers. City transit spokesman Al O'Leary said the opening should help people who work and live in the area.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------
Kevin Korell


Alan,

Take care and take trains!

#14 AlanB

AlanB

    Member

  • Global Moderator
  • PipPip
  • 2166 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens, NY

Posted 15 September 2006 - 07:35 PM

Alan Burden
Member #69964, posted 09-26-01 07:02 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The reopening of the Chambers Street station for the 1 & 2 is also confirmed on the MTA's web site. New maps are also available, see links below. Please remember that you need Adobe Acrobat Reader in order to view the maps.


Alan Burden
Member #69980, posted 09-27-01 07:30 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The first video of the destroyed NYC subway tunnels is now available, showing the damage to the 1 & 9 line. They mention that over a thousand feet of tunnel was destroyed, along with the Cortland Street station. They also report that the Cortland Street station on the N & R line was destroyed.

The video is from “New York 1 News” a local cable channel for the city.


Alan Burden
Member #70005, posted 09-28-01 12:06 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New York City Transit officials have determined that damage to the No. 1 and 9 subway tunnels and stations in Lower Manhattan is so extensive that the line will need to be completely rebuilt for more than a mile.
The work on the line from just south of Chambers Street all the way to the end, at the South Ferry station, could take more than two years, transit officials said this week, adding that they could not speculate beyond that.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This article from the New York Times goes on to state that at least 575 feet of the tunnel is completely collapsed and that there are I-beams that are bent like paper clips. It also mentions that parts of the tunnel will need to be filled with concrete in an effort to shore up the street above. Without this heavy equipment will not be able to work to clear the debris from the street above. This of course will then need to be drilled out before the tunnel can be rebuilt.

They also mention that a corridor and equipment room on the N & R lines was punctured by debris from the #2 World Trade building. They estimate that it will take close to six months to restore that line.

The full article can be found here. Please note that free registration is required to view this story.


KEVINKORELL
Member #70006, posted 09-28-01 02:11 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It sounds like the structural damage extended as far south as the South Ferry station, which might explain why the 5 is not serving the station in the interim. I wonder if the 5 is looping through the South Ferry station on the trips that end revenue service at Bowling Green?
------------------
Kevin Korell


Alan,

Take care and take trains!

#15 AlanB

AlanB

    Member

  • Global Moderator
  • PipPip
  • 2166 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens, NY

Posted 15 September 2006 - 07:36 PM

Alan Burden
Member #70008, posted 09-28-01 04:36 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin,
I have no first hand knowledge if the 5 is using the South Ferry loop during off peak hours. However, I think that the article must be wrong in saying that the South Ferry station needs rebuilding. This station is over 10 blocks away from the WTC, a distance of just over one half mile. Other than dust, this is well past the farthest reaches of the debris field.

I personally walked through that area during my subway excursion the Sunday right after the attack. I can tell you with certainty that there was no above ground damage to the Whitehall Ferry Terminal, no damage to the South Ferry Station, and no visible damage to Battery Park. The Bowling Green station, where I boarded an uptown 5 during my trip, was also undamaged. That station is 3 blocks further north than South Ferry.

For that matter even the article mentions that the World Trade Center station on the E line is essentially undamaged. This station literally touches the underground WTC complex. My only concern is the fact that the article mentions that they have plugged the 1 & 9 tunnel to protect against flooding, should the walls fail on the sub-basement. Even Path has plugged its tunnels near the Exchange Place station. I wonder what they have done to protect against that threat at the WTC station.

This is not a tunnel that is easily plugged, but instead is a number of glass doors. If the basement were to flood and water entered the station, it would then be able to flood the A, C, & E lines. Plus if the water rose high enough, I suspect that it would also be able to flood the Park Place station on the 2 & 3 lines. Although at the moment the 1 is replacing the 3 train. This would create a major transportation nightmare, not to mention what could happen if there was no or only limited warning of imminent flooding.


KEVINKORELL
Member #70009, posted 09-28-01 05:37 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And if that floods, and the water makes its way east in the A/C or 1/2 subways one station to the Broadway/Nassau/Fulton Street complex, it will affect most of the rest of the system too, wiping out the J/M and the 4/5 lines as well.
------------------
Kevin Korell


KEVINKORELL
Member #70035, posted 09-30-01 12:50 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NYCSUBWAY.ORG has 19 photos now available of the damage to the WTC station on the 1/9 line, apparently taken by the MTA. You may have seen some of these elsewhere, but they are all here together in one place:
here
------------------
Kevin Korell


Special Note: While the original link to the photos of the Cortland station was no longer valid, the photos nonetheless do still exist on the NYCSubway.org website, so I have edited the above post to correct the link for those who might wish to view the photos of the damage.
Alan,

Take care and take trains!

#16 AlanB

AlanB

    Member

  • Global Moderator
  • PipPip
  • 2166 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens, NY

Posted 15 September 2006 - 07:37 PM

Alan Burden
Member #70164, posted 10-05-01 07:18 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The MTA has restored service today to the Chambers Street station on the A & C lines. While this station runs under four city blocks with multiple entrances, only the entrances at the north end on Chambers Street will be open. The connecting passages between Chambers and the WTC and Park Place stations will remain closed. No word on when those two stations might reopen, since this will require the frozen zone’s northern line to move further south towards ground zero.



Alan Burden
Member #70165, posted 10-05-01 08:46 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin,
To answer two of your earlier questions posed in “NYC Transit Update Part 5”, I took a few subway rides last Saturday after my return from the Deleware Transportation Festival.

The first question related to, how were they turning the E train at Canal Street. My earlier suspicions about the condition of the WTC station were correct. Initially I stood on the Canal Street platforms and watched a few trains come and go. All of the E’s entering the station going northbound, were on the local track. The only way to get on that track is to come from the WTC station. I also watched the southbound E train that I had used in getting to the station pull out, after it was inspected for any passengers. Once they were sure it was empty, it left on the track heading for the WTC station.

I then took a ride at the front of a Brooklyn bound C train. As my train pulled slowly through the Chambers Street station, I saw that the E train that had just left Canal Street, was indeed parked at the WTC station.

The second question regarded, whether the overhead signs were being changed. At the moment the overheads are still not being changed. Even on the 1, 2, & 3 lines were the current changes are expected to stay in effect for years. While the expense might not be justifiable on the N, Q, & R Broadway lines which might see service return south of Canal in 5 to 6 six months, one would think that they would change the overheads for the 7th Avenue line.

My sampling included rides on the Broadway line, the 7th Avenue line, the 4th Avenue Brooklyn line, and the Queens Boulevard line.

They do continue to make frequent announcements, listing the changes, at most stations. While most people seem to have adjusted, I have seen several people who are confused about which train is going where. Several people have even leaned into the train car I was in, to ask the closest passenger where that particular train was headed.

I even watched two young women yesterday let a W train go, because they were waiting for an N train to Queens. I politely explained that they would be waiting all day if they continued to wait for a N train. They informed me that they had been waiting for over 20 minutes for that elusive N train.

I have not seen any of the one page notices listing all of the changes, that they were handing out during the first week following the disaster.


Alan Burden
Member #70397, posted 10-18-01 09:27 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Below are links to the latest NY Subway maps showing the current service changes due to the World Trade Center disaster. Note that these new maps do not reflect any changes in subway service, they only show additional bus service. I’m posting the new links only in case the old links should stop working.

Full NY Subway Map


Alan Burden
Member #70505, posted 10-25-01 07:26 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An unconfirmed report states that service will return Sunday morning October 28th to the lower Broadway line, which has been closed since the September 11th disaster. This would allow the return of the N & R trains. The trains will not stop at the Cortland Street station or the Rector Street station, since these stops are within the frozen zone. However the City Hall station, the Whitehall Street, and the Canal Street stations will reopen.
This provides not only a second choice for passengers transferring from the Staten Island Ferry, but it is much closer than the other alternative. The Whitehall station is only one block from the ferry, as opposed to the Bowling Green station on the 4 & 5 lines which is a three block walk. The closest transfer to the ferry is the South Ferry station on the still closed 1 & 9 line. This line is still predicted to be closed for at least two years, and that is dependent upon the cleanup process at the WTC site.

Another major advantage to the return of the N & R service is that these are 10 car trains. Currently the J & M, both of which run 8 car consists, are providing replacement service in Brooklyn for the N & R. This I’m sure has lead to worse than normal overcrowding on rush hour trains.


------------------
Alan Burden


Alan,

Take care and take trains!

#17 AlanB

AlanB

    Member

  • Global Moderator
  • PipPip
  • 2166 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens, NY

Posted 15 September 2006 - 07:38 PM

Alan Burden
Member #70506, posted 10-25-01 09:06 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some personal transit observations from NYC:
My travels this past Tuesday took me to Penn Station to pickup some Amtrak tickets for a coming trip in November. I was not surprised to see a very heavy concentration of NYC Police Officers, not to mention at least 30 National Guard soldiers, as I walked through the lower LIRR level of the terminal. It did however seem odd that on the upper level of Penn Station, the NJT & Amtrak level, there were no NYPD or National Guard troops.

I wonder if Amtrak did not ask for help or did not want help? One would think with their resources stretched so thin, that they would welcome, if not request assistance. Especially since the Governor has already deployed troops to the rest of the station and the surrounding streets.

The entire complex, including MSG, continues to be surrounded with guarded concrete Jersey barriers. Also the small street that runs through the middle of the complex continues to remain closed. No word on if or when this might reopen.

Turning to the subways and returning to a question raised by Kevin Korell a few weeks ago, I can now report the following. The overhead signs on the 7th Avenue 1, 2, & 3 lines have now been changed. They reflect the current changes on this line caused by the WTC disaster. All signs at the 34th Street and 42nd Street stations on the local track in both directions now list the 1 & 2 trains. The signs for the express tracks now show only the number 3 line. The number 9 train has completely disappeared. This I’m sure reflects the long-term nature, two years or more, of this change.

On the other hand, the overhead signs on the Broadway line have continued to show all of the trains that were running prior to the WTC disaster. This would of course make sense in light of the report I posted above.


------------------
Alan Burden


KEVINKORELL
Member #70512, posted 10-25-01 10:53 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan,
Thanks for your observations and reports from New York. Having the N/R back sooner than expected means the damage was not as bad as they had thought, and that they worked feverishly to get this route back online.

It will be help to Staten Island Ferry passengers, although I'm not sure the Whitehall Street Station could accomodate the crowds that normally are dispersed among the various lines at the South Ferry and Bowling Green stations.

------------------
Kevin Korell


Alan Burden
Member #70513, posted 10-25-01 11:15 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin,
Actually the only damage that I've heard about to the N & R, was to a small utility room off of the still closed Cortland Street station. I think the closure was due more to vibrations and the number of stations within the frozen zone. Since the frozen zone has shrunk considerably in the last few weeks, it makes it possible to reopen.

I would also agree that the Whitehall station couldn’t accommodate all of the passengers from the ferry. However, I’m sure that the Bowling Green station has been dangerously overcrowded during the past few weeks. Since the only other open station even remotely close, the Broad Street station on the J & M line, is a good six blocks away from the ferry terminal. So the reopening of Whitehall will help tremendously, even though it is likely to have overcrowding problems.

Maybe they will just have to temporarily close off the platforms for brief periods. They do this sometimes at 34th Street and 6th Avenue where riders have to transfer between lines since the Manhattan Bridge changes caused dangerous overcrowding at this station.


------------------
Alan Burden


Alan Burden
Member #70514, posted 10-25-01 11:42 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A former Prodigy BB member, Ellis Simon, has e-mailed me to let me know that he had also heard about the reopening of the N & R lines. He heard it on a different radio station than the one I first heard the story from.
I also now just heard a report from channel 4 NBC News stating that the reopening is indeed planned for Sunday morning. So even though I’ve seen nothing in print yet, it looks like this story is confirmed.

In addition NBC also ran a brief story that the MTA is now looking towards buying the PATH system from the Port Authority of NY & NJ. They stated that they are looking for federal funding to help in this effort. They hope to create a seamless system to help with the transportation problems created by the disaster. They did not say if the PA was talking with the MTA, or even interested in selling.

If this is true and comes to fruition, it would be a start down the road towards a truly seamless transportation system for the NYC - TriState area. This is something that transit advocate groups have dreamed about for years.


------------------
Alan Burden


Alan,

Take care and take trains!

#18 AlanB

AlanB

    Member

  • Global Moderator
  • PipPip
  • 2166 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens, NY

Posted 15 September 2006 - 07:38 PM

Alan Burden
Member #70516, posted 10-26-01 08:20 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The first small news article confirming the return of the N & R can be found here.
This article also mentions that the Rector Street station may reopen within a few weeks. They however expect that the Cortland Street station, the actual WTC stop, will remain closed for sometime to come.

They also mention that average daily ridership, pre WTC disaster, on the N & R trains is over 900,000 riders per day. All of whom have had to find new ways to work for the last few weeks.

------------------
Alan Burden


Alan Burden
Member #70529, posted 10-26-01 08:55 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s official! The MTA has now confirmed the return of the N & R trains. This morning while waiting for my train, in addition to the normal WTC disaster diversion announcements, they also announced the return of the N & R trains.
Next the MTA’s daily WTC disaster update page confirms this. The changes will go into effect at 5:00am Sunday morning. There is however one major difference from all of the prior postings and articles. The MTA is reporting that the Rector Street station will open along with the Whitehall and City Hall stations. This will leave Cortland Street (WTC) as the only closed station on the line. Also they have posted new maps on the net, see the links below.

Finally the MTA has announced that the Park Place station on the 1 & 2 line will reopen this Sunday also at 5:00am. In addition all of the entrances from the Chambers Street station on the A & C lines will now be open. Previously you could only exit on Chambers Street, all of the other entrances were closed.

Note that Chambers Street and Park Place are free transfers. However the E World Trade Center station, which is also connected to this complex, will remain closed.


MTA Lower Manhattan Subway Map


------------------
Alan Burden


KEVINKORELL
Member #70530, posted 10-26-01 11:15 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of significance in this coming change:
The Q, <Q>, and W trains return to their normal operations too, with all Q trains terminating at 7th Avenue/57th Street.

The W continues to serve the Astoria line in Queens, once again skipping some stops now that the N is back.

The J and M return to their normal operations. That means all J trains have their western/southern terminus in Manhattan, while M trains continue through the Montague Tunnel and run over the 4th Avenue Subway and over a portion of the West End (W) line.

Note there are some mistakes on the map, as they continue to show the J train running along 4th Avenue in Brooklyn.

Also, N trains running on the Sea Beach line will not go to Coney Island effective November 3rd. They will terminate at 86th Street. Only the F, Q, and W go to Coney Island.

------------------
Kevin Korell


KEVINKORELL
Member #70532, posted 10-26-01 11:44 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is my take on the possibility of MTA purchasing the PATH rail line:
I have heard some other scenarios for the restoration of PATH service to downtown Manhattan, but am unable to quickly find links to such tonight. One idea had a terminal located underneath the World Financial Center, in the existing tunnel. But it was dismissed quickly because it would not contain the loop that ran under the WTC, thus there would be a rush hour mess while operators change ends. It also would have put passengers too far from subway connections, all of which are under, east of, or north of the WTC site.

Another idea was to extend the PATH into the former Hudson Terminal, which itself had been replaced when the WTC station opened in 1971. I read somewhere that at least part of the station has remained intact underground, a bit east of where the WTC stood. The former Hudson Terminal could then be reconfigured with direct underground passageways for passengers to connect with the NYC subways. The tracks would have to be re-extended east underneath Ground Zero, or whatever replacement is built on the site.

Remember there is the other PATH line that runs under Greenwich Village along Avenue of the Americas, between 9th and 33rd Streets. It directly parallels the subway line along the same street. Should they fall under one agency, either one or the other would become duplicative and could be abandoned. Or looking at it the other way, capacity could be greatly increased by the additional set of tracks for Avenue of the Americas, especially once this line is again connected to the Manhattan Bridge.

There is also the matter of that stub track on the PATH line just east of the 9th Street Station. At one time it was supposed to be a branch that would run to the Lower East Side, around Astor Place. Maybe it's time to think about building that line, giving interstate passengers yet another option, and access to this part of Manhattan and the subway lines that it would intersect.
------------------
Kevin Korell


Alan,

Take care and take trains!

#19 AlanB

AlanB

    Member

  • Global Moderator
  • PipPip
  • 2166 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens, NY

Posted 15 September 2006 - 07:39 PM

Alan Burden
Member #70536, posted 10-27-01 12:30 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of note in the following NY Times article, is that the number of passengers passing through the Bowling Green station on a daily basis has doubled to 50,000. As the only open station in lower Manhattan for the last few weeks, its capacity had been sorely tested.


Alan Burden
Member #71109, posted 11-28-01 06:35 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The reopening of three subway stations damaged by the destruction of the World Trade Center is at least three years away, a chief engineer at New York City Transit said Wednesday.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A story from 1010 WINS News states that it will take at least three years to restore service between South Ferry and Chambers Street on the 1 & 9 line. Currently there are two scenarios being considered, with a final decision expected in December.

The first would just rebuild the line along it current route. The second option being considered would involve a new tunnel that runs west of the World Trade Center site and would serve Battery Park City. This would also allow them to build a new South Ferry station. A new station would accommodate all 10 cars on the train and would not be on a sharp curve.

In addition the article continues to go along with the general consensus that it will take Path at least two years to restore service.

Perhaps the best news in this story is the expected return of service to the Cortland Street station on the N & R lines. That station could be reopened in about six months, once new entrances are built to the southbound platform.

I have also seen a report on the local NBC news confirming this story.


------------------
Alan Burden


KEVINKORELL
Member #71111, posted 11-28-01 10:22 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree, if the line has to be totally rebuilt anyhow, why not do it right and run it closer to a population center. On its current course underneath the former WTC concourse, that will be a wasteland even when everything is cleaned out. And then should something be rebuilt on the same sight, even just a memorial to those lost there, it will be a construction zone some more.
Assuming parts of Battery Park City are habitable, it is a good idea to serve those residents with rail rapid transit. To get to it now they have to take private vehicles (not MTA-sanctioned) to the stations that are open east of Broadway, since their entry from WTC no longer exists. And then coming into Battery Park itself, the new alignment would be conditioned so that there is no longer such a short platform and such a tight loop.

The only question I have about going on a more westerly is that darn bathtub we have been hearing about. Until all debris is removed, nobody knows if the walls of the underground bathtub are going to be intact, or might have serious leaks or breaches. There could be potential for yet another catastrophe on the site if river water were to make it into tbe undergound concourses, and the existing and planned rail underground rail stations.

Has anyone ever answered the question as to why the 5 subways that normally terminate and originate at Bowling Green, why they cannot use the South Ferry Loop? I assume that from the outer, station track normally (but formerly) used by the 1/9, there is both entry and egress between the loop and the Lexington Avenue Line just south of the Bowling Green station. If the 5 could make it around the loop, then this important station can at least get some service back albeit with a later transfer to the West Side line at Broadway-Nassau and Broadway-Lafayette and the City Hall complex. And the station would be less crowded with passengers since they eventually would have a choice of 1/9 rerouted via BPC, and the 5 uptown on Lexington.

So I am for a reroute of the 1/9 westerly -- at least there will be a World Financial Center and Battery Park City, even if the WTC is not rebuilt in any form for years.

------------------
Kevin Korell


Alan Burden
Member #71112, posted 11-29-01 12:42 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin,
Most if not all of Battery Park City is once again open to residents. Tourists cannot get there very easily, if at all, since it is still within the frozen zone.

I would agree that the Battery Park City area could use a rerouted subway line, and yet the line would still be poised to serve anything that is built at the WTC site. The bathtub would only be a problem if it collapsed totally and destabilized the surrounding area. Any leaks would not affect a rerouted subway, since it would be outside the bathtub.

From what I heard if they were to reroute and build a new South Ferry Station, there would be no loop. It would be a regular two track, center platform station. The motorman would drop his air and then walk to the opposite end to head back uptown.

As for the 5 serving the current South Ferry station, I can think of only one reason. The 5 only goes around the loop during non-rush hour times, during rush hours it runs to Brooklyn. If they send all trains around the loop, then it deprives Brooklyn of much needed transportation. By the same token South Ferry’s demand is greatest during rush hour, not off peak when the trains are going around the loop.

There is however no physical plant reason why the 5 can’t serve the South Ferry platforms. All of the necessary track and switches to facilitate such a move are in place. I have even run around the loop and crossed over on two separate occasions, once in each direction, due to track work reroutes.

Perhaps the correct answer would be to steal several #4 & #5 train slots. Then use those slots to create a new #8 train. This way the 4 & 5 would run to Brooklyn at all times, the 8 will service South Ferry, and the public would not end up totally confused.


------------------
Alan Burden


Alan,

Take care and take trains!

#20 AlanB

AlanB

    Member

  • Global Moderator
  • PipPip
  • 2166 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens, NY

Posted 15 September 2006 - 07:43 PM

Finally, the day after the disaster I took a quick ride on the #7 train and wrote the following report, which I also posted on the old site back then.

On Wednesday I took a ride on my local subway line the #7. The closest station to me is 69th street Queens. Normally due to the height of local buildings near the station, I can only see the Citicorp building, The Empire State building, and The Twin Towers. Standing there on the platform today, but for the plume of smoke, I could not tell where the southern end of Manhattan was.

While service levels appeared to be around normal levels for 3:00pm in the afternoon, the passenger levels were less than normal. There were however, still a fair amount of passengers riding the train inbound towards the city. It was good to see that a fair amount of people were going on with life, some were going to work, many appeared to be out shopping both for food and retail shopping.

Riding in the head car of the train, I was able to look out the front window, as the train traveled closer to the city. It was definitely a surreal experience to see the anchors of lower Manhattan missing. I’m old enough to remember when there were no twin towers. The change was almost as dramatic a change to the NYC skyline as an experience I had when I was a small child.

At that time we lived in New Jersey about 20 miles west of the city. I can remember walking up a big hill near our house during the massive power failure in NYC during the 60’s. Turning to look at Manhattan and finding nothing there, where usually I could always find Manhattan. Without power you could see almost nothing, it was like some one had stolen the city. The only clue it was still there was a slight reflection of the moon in a few windows here and there.

Approaching the Queens Plaza station, one travels over Amtrak’s Sunnyside yard. I could see a normal complement of Amtrak and NJT trains in the yard. Included in the yard was what I believe was the consist for the Lake Shore Limited, those Viewliner Sleepers are very distinctive.

Leaving the Queens Plaza stop one can see the 59th street Bridge. Then as the train goes around the final curve, before diving under ground, one can see the Long Island Expressway right before it enters the Midtown Tunnel. It was startling to see that both of these major links to Manhattan, while now open, were virtually devoid of cars and trucks. Normally at this hour of the afternoon both of these arteries would be packed with cars.

I departed the train at Hunters Point station to comply with the Mayor’s wishes that people only come into town if they absolutely needed to be there. I didn’t. I then rode an outbound train back to the 74th Street/Roosevelt Ave. station. Again this train was moderately full, but again not normal for the hour, especially since it was coming out of the city. There would normally be a heavier load in this direction.

As the train returned above ground, I was now in the last car, and again looking out the window. The first thing I saw was a NJT Midtown Direct train to Dover, heading into the tunnels bound for Penn to pick up it’s passengers. Next I noticed a large electronic billboard right by the midtown tunnel was no longer flashing its usual commercial ads. It instead had a message of sympathy for all those who lost loved ones, which was alternated with a number to call should you wish to donate blood.

I detrained at 74th street and went downstairs to the underground transfer to the E, F, G, & R trains. Service here seemed a little lighter than normal, perhaps in part the R train was not operating in Queens or Manhattan. After watching around 10 trains come through the station some inbound and some outbound, my conclusion was that once again passenger loads were less than normal. They were however higher than I had expected under the circumstances.

Police presence was only a little higher than is normal for the sections of subway that I covered. People in general seemed a little somber, but they were also getting on with life and the things that they needed to do.

New Yorker’s however are a very unique lot, despite our hard shell reputation. I have heard countless stories of the goodness of my fellow citizens. Restaurants and stores that are providing free food to the rescuers, a sporting goods store owner who was handing out free sneakers to all the women walking past his store wearing high heeled shoes, people lining the main approach streets to the WTC cheering and clapping every time rescue trucks drive by. Many of who were holding signs thanking them for their efforts.

I watched the events unfold on TV, from almost the very beginning since I tuned in at about 9:05 prior to the second plane hitting. However, I can tell you that it is even stranger actually going outside to really see it in real life. I would compare it to the difference of watching a fireworks display in person vs. on television. Somehow the fireworks never seem quite as spectacular on the TV as they do in real life. While spectacular is not the correct word for this tragedy, the comparison is similar. It somehow seems to hit home all that much harder when I look at it with my own eyes and not through the lens of a TV camera.


Alan,

Take care and take trains!




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users