53 replies to this topic

[WICT106]

One reason the "Arrowhead" failed was that it did not connect with any other trains when arrived or departed from Saint Paul during the early 1980s.

Wasn't it called the North Star in the Amtrak era?

I remember when the North Star (Trains 9 & 10) ran as a "shuttle" connecting with the Empire Builder at MSP, and I think before that it was combined with the Builder and ran as one train all the way to Chicago. I'm not sure if it ever provided another frequency between CHI and MSP.

Whatever they get up and running by 2010 or 2012, if at all, it won't be the "High-speed rail" denoted in the headline, and it also won't be the "commuter rail" they call it towards the end of the article.

No. One of the earlier iterations of Duluth- Twin Cities rail service was called the "Arrowhead," and another iteration, during the 1970s, ran all the way through to Chicago and was scheduled as an overnight run between the Head of the Lakes and the Windy City. The name switched back and forth between "North Star" and "Arrowhead." The original reason for the train may have been because the Interstate Highway System was not completed to Duluth,MN & Superior, WI, until 1985. Service was cut back to MSP-DUD in 1981, before being discontinued in 1985. (Source: Twin Ports Railroad and Railfan page, link here .)

According to at least one obscure source, the 1980s iteration of the train departed Saint Paul at 10:30 am each morning, meaning that the connection with Chicago was broken, and the only real connection that the train had with the rest of the National System was to and from the Empire Builder from the West.

See this link as well: North Star at Everything2 dot com. This link provides two examples of historic schedules, and compares them side-by-side.

Edited by WICT106, 16 November 2007 - 07:08 AM.

[jphjaxfl]

I rode the Arrowhead and NorthStar a number of times between the Twin Cities and Duluth. The last BN train between the Twin Cities and Duluth was discontinued as of April 30, 1971 and was not operated by Amtrak. There was a grass roots effort to reinstate service between the Twin Cities and Duluth. The state representative from Duluth was very instrumental in getting the service resumed and finally the State Legislature came through with some funding in 1976 or 77. The service began with a train known as the Arrowhead, that left Minneapolis' Great North Station in the morning around 8AM and terminated in Superior Wisconsin. It returned to the Twin Cities around 5:30PM in the evening. There was a bus connection between Superior and Duluth because the track had to be rehabilitated. Eventually the train ran all the way to Duluth. There was a small Amtrak station at the side of the Union Station in Duluth which is a railroad museum. The Arrow was very popular especially on weekends with those making day trips or weekend trips from the Twin Cities to Duluth. When Amtrak moved from the Great North Station to the Midway Station, the Arrowhead moved. Originally equipment on the Arrowhead was three BN/GN coaches that BN had not sold to Amtrrak but donated to the State of MN to begin the service. Eventually Amtrak used other Heritage Equipment on the route. For a while, the former Wabash Blue Bird Dome Parlor Observation car operated(in coach service) was used. The former GN route from Coon Creek JCT(where it left the route currently used by the Empire Builder) to Duluth is very scenic, especially further north). When the NorthCoast Hiawatha was discontinued west of the Twin Cities, a new train known as the North Star was started by extending what had been the Arrowhead to Chicago with an overnight schedule from St Paul Midway to Chicago. The departure from Duluth was slightly later and the departure from the Twin Cities was later as well. The train carried a Heritage Sleeper, Amfleet coaches and an Amdinette which served beverages, snacks and tray meals. The Arrowhead had been converted the Amfleet coaches and a snack car prior to the NorthStar beginning. The Northstar did very well between the Twin Cities and Chicago. Prior to that Amtrak had operated the Empire Builder and the North Coast Hiawatha between the Twin Cities and Chicago but they ran fairly close together. The Northstar was great for a weekend in Chicago with the overnight Sleeping Car. The Sleeping Car fare was reasonable and comparable to staying in mid range hotel. Unfortunately, the Twin Cities-Duluth service suffered due to the through train. it was often late arriving at St Paul Midway from Chicago so Twin Cities passengers going to Duluth didn't have a dependable departure time. In 1981, Amtrak discontinued the Twin Cities-Chicago portion of the NorthStar. They also increased the amount that the State of MN had to pay to keep the Twin Cities-Duluth train running. There was a push on in more conservative MN legislature to cease the funding. It was finally accomplished. In the last couple of years, the tracks had also deteriorated so the train was often late. To make this route a success, the tracks between Coon Creek JCT and Duluth need to be rehabilitated and there needs to be a least double daily service.

[blund]

Prior to Amtrak, the 4 trains that served Duluth-Superior and the Twin Cities were the Great Northern Badgers (a.m. departures each way) and the Gophers (p.m. departure both ways). I remember taking these trains in the late 60's as a college student in Duluth. One New Years eve when traveling home to Minneapolis, the train was so crowded that they had to get an extra car out (a dome no less) to add to the train. It was a party train all the way that night!
Here is link about the history of these trains.
http://www.mtmuseum....her_badger.html

[Sloan]

http://www.northland...l/14175972.html

The Acela photo is sure to confuse Minnesota folk.

Sloan

[davekcmo]

i thought this was supposed to be an amtrak route?

[Sloan]

http://www.startribu...n_refer=Gophers

[Sloan]

http://www.startribu...i...?page=2&c=y

[WICT106]

Here we go again. At least this time there is some discussion of costs: Options considered for "Mini-Apple" - Twin Ports rail route.

[KevinKorell]

From Minneapolis, MN Star-Tribune, 12/13/09:

MnDOT getting a line on Twin Cities-Duluth rail

The day after saying that a passenger rail line from Minneapolis to Duluth could cost $1 billion, the state transportation official who talked about that price tag was shocked by what he heard at a public meeting in Cambridge:

"Just get it done."

That story can be found here.

[WICT106]

The comments there are enlightening. The general public realizes that highways do not pay for themselves, and freeways aren't truly "free." One downside to this project that I see is that the route is too short. The markets (Duluth MN & Superior WI total population 110,000, while the Twin Cities population is something like 1.2 million) are rather small. Extending the run into and out of Chicago, letting a few of the departures act as additional service along the present-day Amtrak route across WI, would improve the Revenue Passenger Miles, as well as provide more service. However, all of the bottlenecks and traffic choke - points along the route have to be identified and removed, and the track speed increased, for this to be viable. I also question just where the passengers are going to go once they get to Duluth / Superior. Most people I know who travel to that area are passing through the Twin Ports (not stopping) on their way to and from Voyageur's National Park, or the Quetico Park / BWCA. These outdoors folk have a reputation for traveling as self-contained as possible. What must be done in order to get these people out of their cars and into trains ?