INTERNATIONAL may stop serving Canada, To improve line's on-time performance Options

[NickG]

From the Lansing State Journal:

Amtrak has proposed to cut Canada out of its Toronto-to-Chicago line to eliminate delays at the border and to help improve its service.

Amtrak officials told members of the state House and the Michigan Department of Transportation on Thursday that starting the line in Port Huron and eliminating Canada from the route that runs through East Lansing would improve arrival and departure times.

"It will serve the ridership better," said Bruce Hillblom, senior principal in contract administration for Amtrak.

The full story is here.

[EllisSimon]

Probably a move for the better. I rode the predecessor (Blue Water) from Flint to Chicago in 1979 and the train was packed. The current schedule leaves Toronto too early to connect with the Enterprise (overnight train from Montreal and Ottawa) and it arrives in Chicago too late to connect with the transcontinentals. An early a.m. departure from Port Huron with an early afternoon arrival in Chicago would make the train more attractive to Michigan passengers, especially from Flint and Lansing. It would enable people to make a same day round trip (if they wish) or spend just one night over instead of two if they plan to do business in Chicago.

While the loss of through international service is sad, clearly the market isn't there, and difficult customs clearance make this even less attractive. If Amtrak wants to participate in an international service in the Midwest, it would do better to run via Detroit, IMHO.

This post has been edited by EllisSimon: Oct 31 2003, 10:35 PM

[ICGsteve]

I must admitt that I have never understood the International, even as I rode it many times over several years to MSU. In 1979 I went from Chicago to toronto as a high school kid and found the taxi tranfer from Detroit to Windsor easy as pie. MY understanding at the time was that the International route was used as a trough route to Canada only because it was the only way to justify service to Lansing.

[KevinKorell]

What would make sense then, and permit connections, would be to maintain the INTERNATIONAL on its current route, but make it an overnight train like the Chicago-East Coast trains. Then it would arrive and depart both cities in order to make connections in both Chicago and Toronto. Of course you then can question where the equipment will come from, since inevitably it would require at least one sleeper.

[ICGsteve]

I would expect that not to be the case Kevin. Your idea only works if everyone is willing to make CHI-LAN a throw away market as the train times into Lansing would be terrible. If the International is in major part a political bone to Michigan (providing service to the capital city) as I expect it is, then an overnight train does not serve the purpose of the route.

There is another problem; I crossed borders overnight in Europe before the borders became completely open, and it was a pain to deal with border officials at 1am. You will notice that the Adirondack does not cross overnight.

[KevinKorell]

I would expect that not to be the case Kevin. Your idea only works if everyone is willing to make CHI-LAN a throw away market as the train times into Lansing would be terrible. If the International is in major part a political bone to Michigan (providing service to the capital city) as I expect it is, then an overnight train does not serve the purpose of the route.

There is another problem; I crossed borders overnight in Europe before the borders became completely open, and it was a pain to deal with border officials at 1am. You will notice that the Adirondack does not cross overnight.

Well, places like Cleveland, Toledo, etc. are throwaway markets, yet they still see a good business as people there adjust to the obscene train calling times. Lansing being a state capitol and college town would certainly do better with the current daytime station time as opposed to an overnight schedule. It is possible that the loss of the Chicago-Lansing market could be offset by increased patronage between the endpoint cities, at least in AMTRAK's eyes.

The real answer, something I've advociated for years on most routes but certainly realize that it is operationally and financially impossible, is to run both an overnight train and a day train, so that everyone on the route has the choice between a daytime train and an overnight train. That way those starting from Lansing, for example, who need the ability to make a same-day transfer in Chicago could do so, but the price is catching the westbound train in the wee hours.

Yes the ADIRONDACK is a day train. The old MONTREALER ran on an overnight schedule between New York City and Montreal, but it crossed the border around dinnertime southbound and around breakfast time northbound. I would not be concerned with the attitude of the border officials if crossing the border overnight -- they should handle matters the same whether it is midnight or 12 noon. The inconvenience though is for the passengers, who would have to awaken (and get dressed if in a sleeper) when the inspectors board the train in the middle of the night.

[ICGsteve]

I also believe that this route should have both day and night service. It is well proven that for markets with a sizable potential customer base that the passenger load - freq of service equation is better than a simple multible. FOr instance if you double the freq of service you get not two times the number of passengers, but 2.3 or more. This is in part because the service fits in better with each individuals schedule, but also they have peace of mind knowing that if they miss one train they can get the next one and still be fine.

This has sort of been ignored over the years as political realities have forced AMtrak to have the max number of routes and cities served that could be funded with supports. It is clear to me that if Amtrak had been run as a railroad business that the network would look different, and that the government subsidy to rev ratio would look much better.

[KevinKorell]

By the way, the route of the MAPLE LEAF was at one time augmented by a weekend overnight train between New York & Toronto that carried a sleeper. I think it ran Friday night Toronto-bound and Sunday night New York-bound. It used the sleeper car that was made available by the fact that the New York set-out sleeper on the old NIGHT OWL/EXECUTIVE SLEEPER did not run weekends. Anyhow, this train did cross the border at Niagara Falls in the middle of the night.

[EllisSimon]

"Well, places like Cleveland, Toledo, etc. are throwaway markets, yet they still see a good business "

The business was probably better when the Lake Shore Limited called at reasonable hours.

[ICGsteve]

Kevin, your advocating for a night run of the International brings something to mind; all of the Amtrak marketing analysis as far as I know assumes daytime runs. This is how they get to the conclusion that Amtrak can only compete with airlines in city pair markets of 200 miles (300 for NEC speeds) or less. However, if they where to study the situation assuming a night run with low cost add on sleeping accom ($40-$50) then the situation looks far different. Amtrak could then compete with the airlines for runs up to 700 miles. We probably will not see it in our lifetimes, but if we had HSR then Amtrak could compete up to 1000 miles.