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RRF/So what's next?


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#1 KevinKorell

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 04:21 PM

At our Fests it's been practice to discuss among our core group what we should do next. It's hard to get everyone together at the same time, as people tend to spread out on trains, and to wander away at endpoint stations. But those of you who were talkative during our 8 days together, the subject did come up as I roamed the long distance trains, so there were mini-conversations about it. Nothing thus far is etched in stone. I am sure if it was, some of you would already have hotel reservations made in the host cities. :) I think it's clear we will be doing our Winter 2015 event in the Washington, DC area, now that the Silver Line first phase is open and the DC Streetcar first phase is now supposed to be open by November 2014. Even if the streetcar date slips yet again beyond January, we probably should just commit to the area anyhow. I'll take requests on other Washington Metro routes to ride, and to make a second day out of it, perhaps we go up to Baltimore and do either light rail, Baltimore Metro, or a combination of those. One direction to Baltimore could be on the new weekend MARC service, and the other could be an Amtrak points run, something we all need in January. The picture is much less clear for next summer....... So what is done and ready for our visit now? What comes to mind is Minneapolis/St. Paul, which with the Amtrak station move to St. Paul and the recent opening of the Green Line won't have anything else major happening for a number of years. Visiting there would require one full day and two hotel nights, made possible by the late night arrival of the westbound Empire Builder, and the morning departure of the eastbound Empire Builder. As I've mentioned before, because the Amtrak station is in St. Paul, I would recommend staying there both nights, and using the Green Line both ways on our full activity day. Besides the Green Line there is also the Blue Line, and Northstar commuter rail. The latter must be done in the early fringe of the evening rush hour in order to accomplish a possible round trip out and back. Some have also requested off time at Mall of America to explore. This was always an intended lunch stop, so it probably can be set to last a couple of hours. Minneapolis/St. Paul therefore would take up three days, including the full day there, plus the travel between Chicago and St. Paul in each direction on the Empire Builder. What else, therefore, can we do to make the trip significant? There is plenty that we still have not accomplished in the Chicago area as a group since we had our first visit in the modern era of Fests back in 2003. Two or three more days of activities could easily be done to fill the time -- including a rehash of something unique as the South Shore Line to South Bend Airport and back. In lieu of that, we turn our eyes south. I have two Fests written for Texas and stops along the route such as Oklahoma City (via the Heartland Flyer) and a 24-hour stopover in Little Rock to do that city's streetcars. Again, what in Texas is ready to ride and what isn't? A few of you requested Dallas once more, and yes with the last segment of light rail set to open later this summer, and an extension of the McKinney Avenue streetcar downtown to open soon, this does rate a return. I had paired it with Houston, which also has a growing light rail network. Houston's light rail network won't be totally completed anytime soon, but the starter Red Line has already been extended northward, and two new lines should be open by the end of this calendar year. The downside of Houston is its inaccessibility by Amtrak from the north. It is on the Sunset Limited route, which runs east-west and only thrice weekly. A daily Thruway bus connects it to the Texas Eagle at Longview, but that route misses the Dallas/Fort Worth area. So one question whose answer we must agree upon is how to best visit Houston? In pairing it with Dallas, I had us going one direction from Chicago to Houston via Longview, with the last segment by bus. To get from Houston to Dallas would mean taking the westbound Sunset Limited to San Antonio, and the northbound Texas Eagle from there to Dallas. That would require a rather long overnight stopover in San Antonio. After what we experienced in Salt Lake City, how popular would that be? Another alternative could be to approach or leave Houston in the other direction to/from New Orleans -- at least that would be an overnight hotel stay in New Orleans. But that would leave Dallas out. Texas also has the Metrorail line run by Cap Metro in Austin, something most possible in the early afternoon rush hour. It therefore would lend itself to a 24-hour stopover. So I am open to ideas here --- how we can best utilize our time and do as much rail riding as possible in what we have found to be a comfortable amount of time -- approximately one week out of Chicago, which translates to 2-4 days longer depending on where people live on the east coast. I am starting to think that THREE trips to Texas may be necessary over the course of the next few years in order to avoid that overnight San Antonio dwell.


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#2 shanghai

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 04:57 PM

I like the proposed Minneapolis - St Paul suggestion. Either the St Paul or Texas plan will require an overnight travel to Chicago or New Orleans for me. Weather in St Paul would be chilly in January, but that doesn't bother me. I like the Houston possibility as I am unfamiliar with that city. My two-cents worth!!

#3 pennyk

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 05:57 PM

Kevin, I like your suggestion of WAS Silver line for next January. (In fact, I have already told my sister who lives in the area that I likely will be in WAS next January). As for the summer fest, I like the idea of MSP. I have been there by train once, but that was quite a while ago and I stayed near the airport because I was attending a conference. The cab rides were no fun. Although I hope the summer temperature in MSP will be cooler than summer in Salt Lake City, I doubt it will be "chilly." (Dick, I do not think Kevin is planning a January trip to MSP. For me, it would be much colder than "chilly." :lol: ) Texas is not on my top ten list, but I would like to see Austin and probably would attend a fest wherever as long as I am physically and financially able to do so.

#4 steve4031

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 09:16 PM

I think the twin cities fest would work best for next summer. I would be up for Chicago riding too. There is discussions of talgos operating in michigan this fall. Also don't recall the status of the Woodward streetcar in Detroit.

#5 KevinKorell

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 10:15 PM

I think the twin cities fest would work best for next summer. I would be up for Chicago riding too. There is discussions of talgos operating in michigan this fall. Also don't recall the status of the Woodward streetcar in Detroit.

Talgos may operate but a main issue with Michigan is the frequency of the trains. Hopefully with faster service there would be added runs between Chicago and Detroit (and on to Pontiac). But a trip to Detroit would be contingent with the streetcar being completed, and ground was just broken for the Woodward line. Look how long Washington, DC's streetcar is taking to get up and running. Kansas City from the time it was announced until the target opening of late 2015 is two years. Atlanta's streetcar is taking a long time too, and Cincinnati is also under construction and had a delay when its future was threatened. Point is, Michigan is probably a few years off to be possible for a Fest. If the Detroit People Mover survives until then we have another thing to ride. But Detroit as you probably know is a dead city, and its well documented bankruptcy only made things worse.


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#6 saxman

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 12:22 AM

One problem with going to Houston from NOL is that we'd have to spend two or three nights there to wait for the next westbound Sunset Ltd. There wouldn't be enough light rail to ride to fill up 2 days worth. Perhaps MSP could also be combined with STL and/or KCY? It might be a little to long, but a nice loop from CHI to STL, then to KCY on the River Runner and return to Chicago on the SWC. Or all that in reverse could be better.

#7 KevinKorell

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 01:35 AM

Chris, thanks for those thoughts .... some of them have already been percolating in my mind. Let me first clarify that I see Houston as a place that has three ways in and three ways out. One does not necessarily need to go out of Houston the way they came in, or to continue in the same direction using Houston as a stopover city. You can enter Houston daily from the north via the Thruway bus from Longview and the Texas Eagle, or by the thrice weekly Sunset Limited from the east or from the west. And you could exit the city the same way -- north on the Longview Thruway bus daily, or three times a week in either direction on the Sunset Limited. With all that said, I've looked more closely at the plans for what will open by the end of 2014 in Houston. You're getting the whole Purple Line and a fraction of the Green Line. Because controversy delayed the light rail bridge over freight tracks, the Green Line was built on both sides of where the bridge will be, but there is a huge gap between the sections. The outer section to Magnolia Transit Center is isolated from the rest of the system. So even though those openings are taking place, the Green Line is being done on an incremental basis, thus it would be better to visit Houston once the entire Green Line, bridge and all, is in service. I therefore need not consider Dallas and Houston as one entity when planning a Fest involving both. Thinking this way also eliminates the overnight wait in the San Antonio station. Kansas City is a couple of years off because its streetcar won't be ready to ride until late 2015 at the earliest, assuming no slippage of the date. I pair KC with St. Louis since they have the Missouri RiverRunner between them. So I'd say 2016 at the earliest for anything involving Missouri's bookends. And that would leave Dallas, which is ready for a revisit once the DFW segment of the Orange Line opens next month. There is enough new to ride there, as well as rehash some already ridden lines for the new faces in the group, to probably fill up two full days. So by process of elimination, the question here is, can Minneapolis and Dallas be put together into a single Fest event? When I get the time I can work out some scenarios. Obviously a day in Chicago area would be necessary in between the Empire Builder and Texas Eagle and vice versa. Houston, on the other hand, once the Green Line is complete the city might need to be approached to and from the east, pairing it with yet another New Orleans visit, which is fine since the latter owes us one streetcar line that wasn't running for us in 2011, and has another brand new line that opened since we were there last.


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#8 steve4031

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 11:26 AM

I like combining msp and dalkas. Count me in. Obviously, a same day connection can't be done between the eb and te. It might be possible to work in a morning ride on car or metra before catching the te. That early morning run out to mchenry might be possible.

Edited by steve4031, 29 July 2014 - 12:24 PM.


#9 saxman

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 03:08 PM

That's a good idea, Kevin. Also, remember that New Orleans is also going to break ground this fall on another streetcar extension. Knowing the RTA here, there is very little information about it. Could D/FW, Austin, and OKC be combined all into one perhaps?

#10 KevinKorell

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 03:34 PM

That's a good idea, Kevin. Also, remember that New Orleans is also going to break ground this fall on another streetcar extension. Knowing the RTA here, there is very little information about it.

Could D/FW, Austin, and OKC be combined all into one perhaps?

Correct, NORTA does a poor job of notifying the public and new projects and service disruptions.

I think I had Austin, OKC, and Little Rock combined in one event. Dallas would take more time as there is so much to do.


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