42 replies to this topic

[steve4031]

This would be great for the summer of 2012.

[KevinKorell]

The three itineraries don't yet include days of the week, but there are restrictions. If we chose the Fredericksburg option, the VRE trip has to be on a weekday. Likewise, the Jacksonville option requires us to be in town on a weekday to ride the Skyway. The rest of the Fest could be built around that, most likely to include one weekend. The other thing dependent on the day of the week would be Amtrak Regional #95 from Richmond to Newport News. On a weekend we would have to take Regional #99, which operates almost 2-1/2 hours later, resulting in a much longer layover in Richmond and a much later arrival time at respective hotels in Norfolk (or Virginia Beach). So next week I'll work out which days of the week will work for each option.

And next week is here. And it's done. For each of the 3 itineraries, I have now put the possible days of the week next to each day of each option. For example the Fredericksburg option would have to begin on a Saturday, Sunday, or Monday in order to get VRE in before it goes back into hibernation for the following weekend. The Jacksonville option would have to start on a Sunday, Monday, or Tuesday in order to preserve weekdays for Jacksonville Skyway as well as Regional 95.

[jis]

Jacksonville sounds good, either starting on a Sunday or Tuesday, to keep the number of days one has to take off down to 4. Slight preference for Tuesday start since Friday is easier for me to take off (all my Israeli co-workers are off for their weekend that day) than Monday.

[steve4031]

I like the Jacksonville option. I pick my last two missing links in the Amtrak system. Richmond-Newport News and Charlotte to Raleigh.

[KevinKorell]

There's another item on the table now for 2012. If we ever want to ride New Mexico's RailRunner, we may have to do it soon -- as its dismantling is beginning within the next couple of months with the loss of all weekend service. How long weekday service will last with a new hostile state government is a big question mark. So some option involving the Southwest Chief might need to be invoked sooner rather than later. Besides the "Chief RailFest" option mentioned earlier (which had some flaws with its unreliable KCY connections between the Chief and Missouri RiverRunner), another suggestion was made during last Sunday's chat session to make Albuquerque a stopover on a return trip to Southern California, thus also taking in the Expo Line first segment, the Gold Line East L.A. segment that wasn't yet open when we were there in the summer of 2009, and Angels' Flight which has since reopened. Whether ABQ would work better as a stopover eastbound or westbound is something I can work on in the days to come.

[KevinKorell]

OK I've done some homework on the RailRunner schedule, and putting together a plan is very tricky based on the current weekday schedule. It's tricky in that not only do we need to travel either very early or very late in the day, but we also totally miss conventional breakfast or dinner times. This is not the full schedule, but I show below the trips that have possible returns for our purposes. Except where indicated below, the layovers in Belen or Santa Fe are 30 minutes or less.

Leave Albuquerque	6:35 AM   1:02 PM   4:25 PM   5:38 PM   6:45 PM
Arrive Belen		7:33 AM   1:43 PM   5:26 PM   6:19 PM   7:26 PM

Leave Belen		 7:54 AM   2:00 PM   5:35 PM   6:41 PM   7:40 PM
Arrive Albuquerque	 8:41 AM   2:41 PM   6:34 PM   7:24 PM   8:21 PM

Leave Albuquerque	4:02 AM   5:07 AM   7:23 AM   4:18 PM   5:25 PM   6:34 PM
Arrive Santa Fe		5:31 AM   6:38 AM   8:53 AM   6:00 PM   7:05 PM   8:12 PM

Leave Santa Fe		6:00 AM   7:08 AM  11:33 AM   6:26 PM				  8:20 PM
Arrive Albuquerque	7:27 AM   8:34 AM	1:02 PM   7:50 PM				  9:47 PM	

A few notes about the above:
* The trip from Albuquerque to Santa Fe that leaves 7:23 AM requires a 2 hour 40 minute layover.
* The trip from Albuquerque to Santa Fe that leaves 5:25 PM does not have an immediate return; however it allows 1 hour 15 minutes to have dinner in Santa Fe before the next departure.

First, with the scenario of a westbound stopover, the Southwest Chief, Train #3, arrives in ABQ at 3:55 PM. This leaves time for only one activity. Assuming we have arrived on schedule, we have a little bit of time to check-in and unwind. Then we would take the 5:25 PM trip to Santa Fe, have dinner in Santa Fe, and then return on the 8:20 PM trip to ABQ. Alternatively, we could eat first in ABQ, and then take the 6:34 PM trip to Santa Fe, which have a very short dwell before returning to ABQ. On the second day, we would eat early lunch, take the 1:02 PM trip to Belen, and be back in ABQ by 2:41 PM. That leaves us about 2 hours before the Southwest Chief, Train #3, departs westbound.

Things would be a little different if had the eastbound stopover. The Southwest Chief, Train #4, arrives in ABQ at 11:42 AM. We would now have time for both legs of RailRunner in a single day. We could leave ABQ at 1:02 toward Belen, arriving back from the round trip at 2:41 PM. Then we could take the hour and a half to check-in at our hotels if we haven't already done so, and then we would take the 4:18 PM trip to Santa Fe. After only 26 minutes layover in Santa Fe, this round trip gets back to ABQ at 7:50 PM. We've entirely shot our dinnertime. However we again could have dinner in ABQ, and then take one of the subsequent turns (5:25 PM or 6:34 PM), returning on the 8:20 PM train from Santa Fe. A long day and a late night, but we will have fulfilled our goals and could sleep a little later on Day 2, as the eastbound Southwest Chief, Train #4, leaves at 12:10 PM.

Either way, it of course assumes that the Southwest Chief has arrived on schedule. A very late arrival could thwart us from doing what we came to accomplish. The only way around this would be to schedule an extra day (and 2 hotel nights), which would also create a lot of idle time and emptier wallets.

[KevinKorell]

Either way, it of course assumes that the Southwest Chief has arrived on schedule. A very late arrival could thwart us from doing what we came to accomplish. The only way around this would be to schedule an extra day (and 2 hotel nights), which would also create a lot of idle time and emptier wallets.

I think I have a way to build upon this thought and make it a worthwhile trip, while covering all bases in the event of a late arrival. We could go with 2 nights in ABQ, but instead of making it a stopover to or from the West Coast, make it a destination. Thus, we would arrive in Albuquerque on #3 from Chicago at 3:55 PM, with no further activities scheduled that day. Then have one full day in town to do both legs of RailRunner. On the third day, depart from Albuquerque towards Chicago on #4 at 12:10 PM. This assures that even with a very late westbound arrival, we would still have an entire day to do both legs of RailRunner.

To balance out the above trip, divorce it from the current "Chief RailFest" plan since we can't count on connections with the Missouri River Runner, and just go to & from Chicago on the Chief. The Chief RailFest name would then be applied to the above. To add a little back to this trip, on either end days within Chicago doing METRA and CTA can be added, since Chicago is by far the largest city we haven't yet aced. Chicago has plenty for us to do, and having it currently paired with Minneapolis/St. Paul when the latter is far off in the future (2014 before Central LRT and new St. Paul Depot Amtrak station are both in service) leaves a lot of Chicago rails still unexplored by us.

Meanwhile, to ensure we might be able to ride the Missouri River Runner AND visit St. Louis another time, plan a separate trip that would involve #3 CHI-KCY, stay overnight, and then we make #314 the next morning since we're already in town. That ensures we have time as well for evening activities in STL, and then we can take the Texas Eagle #22 next morning back to Chicago.

[KevinKorell]

Meanwhile, to ensure we might be able to ride the Missouri River Runner AND visit St. Louis another time, plan a separate trip that would involve #3 CHI-KCY, stay overnight, and then we make #314 the next morning since we're already in town. That ensures we have time as well for evening activities in STL, and then we can take the Texas Eagle #22 next morning back to Chicago.

The above would work too in the opposite direction, doing STL first, then #313 that afternoon, stay in KCY and then #4 to CHI next morning.

Meanwhile, based on what was discussed in person during SERF 2011 and mentioned in the Discussing the Future thread, two scenarios have been developed for a combined Chicago/Albuquerque Fest. Assuming the Chief RailFest name for now, the two ideas have been laid out on the revised homepage. To show that neither option has any merit over the other, they are called the Purple and Orange itineraries.

[KevinKorell]

As a companion action to revising the Chief RailFest as described above in Post #28, I also revised the proposed Midwest RailFest.

A way was found to salvage the lost Missouri River Runner trip and ensure time available in St. Louis to ride light rail. It would involve taking the long scenic 23-hour route from Chicago to St. Louis! Start westbound on the SW Chief to KCY, stay there, then the morning Missouri River Runner departure to STL. Return following morning on Texas Eagle to CHI to make eastward connections.

Since a connection from the eastbound Empire Builder to westbound SW Chief is impossible, there's a full weekday in Chicago in between as well. There is a very early morning round trip to McHenry, which I surmise may be highly unpopular, but I thought it would be interesting to see how many do volunteer to do such a thing to get the mileage.

St. Louis belongs on a Midwest Fest anyhow. Homepage here with link to revised itinerary.

[KevinKorell]

The hardest working railfan on the Internet is at it again! As I said I might do, I've taken apart the so-called Rockies RailFest. With the poor calling times of the California Zephyr westbound in Denver (7:15-8:05 AM) and eastbound in Salt Lake City (3:05-3:30 AM), it is impossible to schedule these two cities on the same Fest. Denver has to be a stopover on an eastbound Zephyr trip, and SLC has to be a stopover on a westbound Zephyr trip.

Furthermore, with both cities greatly expanding their rail transit options, with much to come online between now and 2017, it has become apparent that each city might require not a 24 hour stopover but a 48 hour stopover since it would take more than one full day to accomplish everything. So this leaves room for expansion for each city.

For now, I've taken Salt Lake City and Denver and split them up into separate 24-hour (to probably be expanded to 48 hours once more rail lines come online and their schedules are known) Fests.

For Denver, it is based on arrival of the eastbound California Zephyr at 6:38 PM, and departure the next evening at 7:10 PM. The West LRT line and three commuter lines (East, Northwest, and Gold Lines) may cause this to go one more day. Short extensions are also planned for the C/D, E/F, and H light rail lines beyond their current termini.

Salt Lake City was rewritten with the newly color-designated and reconfigured TRAX routes effective 8/7/11, now that schedules are published for them. It too stands alone, assuming a 11:05 PM arrival on the westbound California Zephyr, and a 11:30 PM departure the next night. Again with the Sugarhouse Trolley, FrontRunner South, the Airport TRAX line and the Draper TRAX extension, we may need another day which can be added later.

From the Why-Do-I-Have-To-Think-Of-This department, I had a small revelation that might be helpful, at least for departing the SLC area to the west. The westbound Zephyr stops in Provo, UT at 9:26 PM. When FrontRunner South is completed, it too will stop in Provo. If we made that our last activity and brought our luggage along, we could board the Zephyr there instead of SLC. Since I've observed from watching my Fest-mates that the Sandman and Sleep Fairy seem to visit some of you a lot earlier on trains than they do otherwise in day-to-day life, this would be a benefit to you as you could be tucked safely under the covers before we even get back to Salt Lake City.

I suppose Provo could work too arriving westbound, if you could find lodging there and then take FrontRunner South the following morning to SLC. FWIW I've included Zephyr calling times on the SLC itinerary for both SLC and Provo.

Both of these itineraries will become part of something larger once I develop new Fests for the west coast, most likely Northern California.