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NYC Transit Immediately After 9/11


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#1 AlanB

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 07:08 PM

While the events of 9/11 were horribly tragic in terms of lives lost, they also majorly affected travel in this country in the days and weeks that followed. We are all aware that of course all flights were grounded for 2 days after that morning and that at least marginally Amtrak stepped into the void in an attempt. Much has been made of the fact that Amtrak saw no significant increase in ridership that first week after the disaster, but I've never heard of anyone who stopped to analyze how many originally scheduled passengers cancelled their travel plans because of the tragedy, allowing those stranded far from home because of the flight cancellations to take their place. While the tragedy and the flight cancellations affected the whole country, no place suffered as much as NY in terms of damage and impact to its transportation system. I was home as the tragedy unfolded and by and large did not leave the city for over two days. During that time at home and the weeks that followed, I spent much of my time trying as hard as possible to compile information on New York City's transportation from various sources, including the media both TV & radio, the internet, as well as the printed word and to get that word out to the rest of the country. For those who might be interested in revisiting those dark days in NYC's travel history, below are a series of updates that I started posting on our old home, the Prodigy Trains board on the day of the tragedy and continuing for several weeks. Because it was on a public board, I'm only reposting my old posts and those of Kevin Korell who has graciously given me permission to respost his old posts. I however, will not be reposting the posts from other railfans. So you will no doubt see us responding to various questions and people, but without their permissions to repost their posts, I cannot put up those old posts.
Alan,

Take care and take trains!

#2 AlanB

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 07:10 PM

Alan Burden
Member #69589, posted 09-11-01 12:48 PM
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HaRRy,
No word on Amtrak service.

I can tell you that as of 11:30am all subway service within Manhattan has been stopped. Some reports say the outlying boroughs still have service, some reports say that their is no service.

New Jersey Transit is running trains only in a westbound direction from Penn NY, Penn Newark NJ, and from Hoboken, NJ. There is no eastbound service. All NJT buses in New Jersey continue to run, no buses run between NY and NJ.

I have heard confilicting reports regarding the LIRR and Metro North. Most saying that there is outbound service only, others saying there is no service.

Ferry service to NJ runs in an outbound direction only.

Buses continue to run north of 42nd street and in all of the outer boroughs.

All tunnels are closed. Most bridges are either closed or open in an outbound direction only.

Sections of the New Jersey Turnpike are closed.


Alan Burden
Member #69590, posted 09-11-01 01:17 PM
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Still no word on Amtrak service, but all NE corridor trains after the 10:00am Metroliner #108 have no status at all. All trains prior to and including #108 show late arrivals, but don't indicate if they actually arrived. I did not check the Boston side.
Reports are now indicating the the George Washington Bridge is now closed in both directions. Earlier it was open in the outbound direction only.


Alan Burden
Member #69592, posted 09-11-01 01:37 PM
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As of 1:30pm New Jersey Transit is now reporting that they have suspended all train service into New York's Penn station.


Alan Burden
Member #69596, posted 09-11-01 02:58 PM
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Mayor Rudy Guliani reports as of 2:50 all subways in the four outer boroughs are operating. Within Mahattan all of the letter routes are now running, however for some reason none of the numbered routes are working. Passengers will not be allowed to exit at any lower manhattan stations unless they can prove that they live near the station.
Metro North service was briefly interupted due to a bomb scare at Grand Central around 12:30. Service was restored outbound only about 30 minutes later. All passengers entering the terminal are being searched.

All Path service is suspended.

All major highways are closed approaching any part of NYC including the outer boroughs.


Alan,

Take care and take trains!

#3 AlanB

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 07:11 PM

Alan Burden
Member #69597, posted 09-11-01 03:13 PM
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As one would expect under the circumstances, different sources of news have conflicting reports.
Local NBC news is reporting that the letter line are not running due to power problems. They say that all number lines are running within Manhattan. They also report that trains are not stopping south of 14th street.

NBC is also reporting that limited service eastbound has been resumed at Penn by the LIRR. The LIRR is also reporting that they have limited service out of Brooklyn. In the westbound directions no passengers are being transported west of Jamaica.


Alan Burden
Member #69609, posted 09-11-01 04:12 PM
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Current info as of 4:00pm.
NJT has restored very limited service outbound from New York. They also report that they have restored limited service in both directions on the Raritan, Northeast Corrider, and the North Jersey Coast line from Newark's Penn Station to the ending terminals of each line. There is still no bus service to and from NYC.

The LIRR continues to provide limited service outbound from Penn station. Passengers are being forced to line up outside and then are escorted in small group to a waiting train. There is no choice as to what train you get on. Any transfers must be made at Jamaica.

Metro North's entire system is now operating on a Saturday schedule. All southbound passengers must exit at a station before the boarder between the Bronx and Westchester County. Passengers can only go northbound between Grand Central and the Westchester boarder.

No changes are reported regarding subway service, since my last update.

Still no Path service.

The outbound George Washington Bridge has been reopened.


Alan Burden
Member #69613, posted 09-11-01 06:35 PM
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As of 6:30pm hear is the current situation.

Unconfirmed report says Amtrak has restored limited service on the Northeast Corridor.

All three commuter railroads continue to run limited outbound service from NYC.

Still lots of conflicting reports as to which subway lines are running in Manhattan. All routes are reported to be operating in the outer bouroughs.

All NYC Transit buses in Manhattan will pick up passengers for free all night long.

Still no path service at all, even in New Jersey.

Almost all bridges except for lower Manhattan are now open to outbound traffic only. The Lincoln Tunnel has one lane only, not one tube, outbound. No trucks or vans are permitted, cars only.

Traffic on most major highways remain jammed. Most major roads are closed inbound long before you get near the city.


Alan Burden
Member #69616, posted 09-11-01 07:00 PM
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As of 6:45pm.

All NYC subways, except the #3 line, are now running in Manhattan. Note that trains may skip stops in lower Manhattan, and even if they do stop passengers may not be allowed to disembark.

As I noted earlier all NYC MTA buses will pick up passengers in Manhattan for free all night. No word if this policy will be applied to the subways which are operating within Manhattan.

NJT is still reporting limited outbound service from both NY Penn and Hoboken terminal. No inbound (eastbound) service to either station. Only limited eastbound service to Newark’s Penn station.

There is still no Path service.


Alan,

Take care and take trains!

#4 AlanB

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 07:12 PM

Alan Burden
Member #69619, posted 09-11-01 07:54 PM
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The 7:45pm update.
Both Metro North and the LIRR are now reporting limited service into and out of Manhattan.

Path service still remains suspended. Some are already speculating that Path service to the World Trade Center may take years to restore.

They have announced that Manhattan is closed south of 14th street. Only residents who live within the closed area and don’t live within 10 blocks of the World Trade Center are being allowed south of 14th street. All business located south of 14th have been ordered closed for tomorrow. This includes all stores and restaurants. This also means that the stock market will be closed again tomorrow.


Alan Burden
Member #69637, posted 09-11-01 11:18 PM
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11:00pm update.
Currently no word on if Metro North or the LIRR will have normal service in the morning. The mayor has asked everyone who can possibly stay home to please do so.

According to a Port Authority new conference Path service has resumed between 33rd street Manhattan and Hoboken, Journal Sq, and Newark. Obviously there is no service to the WTC. They will have limited service into Manhattan in the morning to 33rd street. The trains will bypass all local stops in Manhattan to 33rd street. This includes Christopher St., 9th Street, 14th street, and 23rd street.

They also stated that at present they expect the lockdown at all of their bridges and tunnels to continue through at least the morning rush hour. At that time it is anticipated that they will re-evaluate the situation.

The Staten Island ferry will not run.

All of Manhattan south of 14th street will remain lockdown throughout the entire day, and most likely into Thursday. No subways will stop south of 14th and no buses will operate south of 14th street.


Alan Burden
Member #69638, posted 09-11-01 11:42 PM
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11:30 follow up.
The MTA has announced that they hope to run a normal rush hour in the morning on Metro North and the LIRR. All subways are expected to operate as normal in the morning, except that no stops will be made south of 14th street.

Currently there is no word from NJT about their plans for the morning.


Alan Burden
Member #69639, posted 09-12-01 12:12 AM
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12:00pm last update for the night.
NJT has been heard from. They have multiple plans depending on what both Amtrak and Path do. They will have no bus service to NY. If Path continues to run then will try to run normal train service. If Path stops running, then all service running into Hoboken terminal will be canceled. If Amtrak also shuts down, then they will have no train service west of Newark.

Further details can be found at their website here.


Alan,

Take care and take trains!

#5 AlanB

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 07:16 PM

Alan Burden
Member #69646, posted 09-12-01 10:01 AM
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NYC Transit as of 10:00am Wednesday

Amtrak – Running normal schedule with 10-minute delays south of Penn. (unconfirmed)

LIRR – running normal schedule.

Metro North – Running normal schedule.

NJT - Running normal train schedule, no bus service into NY. Normal bus service is running in NJ. All passes are being cross-honored bus to train and train to bus.

Path – Running service every 5 minutes to 33rd street from Hoboken and Newark via Journal Sq.

Subways – Service is as close to normal as possible in the outer boroughs. Below is a description within Manhattan.

Subway service will be normal on the A, B, D, F, G, L, Q, W and Seven lines. But trains will not stop at stations south of Canal Street. Note that the Mayor’s press conference says no stop south of 14th street.

Other subway lines will be detoured or operate in sections:
#1 TRAIN: OPERATING BETWEEN 242 ST. TO TIMES SQUARE.
#2 TRAIN: OPERATING BETWEEN WHITE PLAINS RD. TO 96 ST.
#4 TRAIN: OPERATING FROM WOODLAWN TO GRAND CENTRAL.
#5 TRAIN: OPERATING FROM DYRE AVE. TO 180TH ST.
R TRAIN: OPERATING BETWEEN 95 ST. AND 34 ST.
E TRAIN: OPERATING FROM PARSONS/ARCHER TO 2ND AVE.

NYC Buses – No express bus service at all. Buses run normal in the outer boroughs. No bus service south of 14th street.

All bridges and tunnels into the city remain closed. Most major highways leading up to the city are closed at least 2 miles or more away from the city.


Alan Burden
Member #69668, posted 09-12-01 05:18 PM
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5:00pm Transit Update.

Amtrak - Reporting most trains are running on time. Normal service expected for tomorrow morning.

Metro North and LIRR – Continue to operate a normal weekday schedule. They are also anticipating normal service for tomorrow morning.

NJT – Reporting that they have a few scattered delays, but that most trains are now running on time and on a regular weekday schedule. Earlier problems and delays caused by police action have been cleared. They are also anticipating normal train service for tomorrow morning. Bus operations will resume into Manhattan for the morining.

Path – Continues to operate on 5-minute headways between 33rd street and Hoboken or Newark via Journal Square. Reports conflict on whether or not the trains are stopping at the lower Manhattan stations. NYPD says that people are not being allowed south of 14th street, yet Path claims that they are making stops south of 14th street. Currently they expect to run trains every 10 minutes between Hoboken and 33rd and every ten minutes between Newark and 33rd street for tomorrow’s rush hour. There will be no service to Exchange Place and obviously WTC.

Subways – Almost all lines are running for a least part of their normal route. Basically any route under the WTC complex is either diverted or ends prematurely. Wherever possible normal service will run for morning rush hour.

Buses – Normal service still runs, except south of 14th street. The same will be true for tomorrow. There will be no express bus service.


Alan Burden
Member #69675, posted 09-12-01 07:48 PM
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Bill,
I have heard some reports that they have been attempting to gain access through both the Path tunnels and through the subway tunnels. Officials have only said that they are aware of the tunnels, but say nothing more. Reading between the lines, I believe that they are indeed at least trying. Whether they have succeeded or not, I don’t know.

My guess however is that they are filled with rubble and quite possibly burning rubble. Plus within the past hour the last seven floors of World Trade One have collapsed. They have also had a building on Liberty Plaza come down. Finally they are very worried that WTC building number 5 will collapse. With all of the above occurring, I suspect that at least for the moment they would have pulled out of the tunnels. Perhaps if #5 comes down they will again try that approach.


Alan Burden
Member #69677, posted 09-12-01 08:15 PM
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8:00pm follow up.
The Port Authority has announced the Path service schedule for tomorrow Thursday the 13th.

Starting at 6:00am Path will run 3 services. Newark to 33rd street, Hoboken to 33rd street, and Hoboken to Journal Square. Trains will make all stops along their routes. This is a major change from today, where it was necessary to go into Manhattan to Christopher St. in order to go from Hoboken to any other NJ station and vise a versa.

The Exchange Place station will continue to remain closed. Passengers are advised to get off at Pavonia-Newport and ride the Hudson Bergen Light Rail. No word if there will be a free transfer, but I doubt it. Their other choice is to ride to Grove St and then walk.

NJT has confirmed that they will resume all bus service into Manhattan, except for buses that run into lower Manhattan.


Alan,

Take care and take trains!

#6 AlanB

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 07:21 PM

Alan Burden
Member #69690, posted 09-13-01 09:13 AM
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9:00am Thursday Morning.
Most transit services are operating on or close to schedule with the exceptions as outlined by me above. There are one major exception and a few minor problems listed below.


NYC Subways have stopped all trains on the Lexington Avenue line south of Grand Central/42nd Street as of 8:00am. The need arose to reduce vibrations near the WTC for fear of additional collapses.

NJT is reporting scattered delays on certain trains in and out of NYC.

One additional problem as of 9:00am Staten Island had been shut down. All bridges are closed all bus service has stopped. Reports indicate that authorities are looking for a suspect in the terrorist attack.


Alan Burden
Member #69691, posted 09-13-01 09:17 AM
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Lou,
As it stands right now, barring any new problems, she should have no problems following her normal route. Buses are running, the PA bus terminal is open, and GC is operating normaly.

However if you want the scenic drive go for it. Don't however be shocked if there is not a tremendous amount of traffic and people come to the NJ boarder to gawk at the skyline.


Alan Burden
Member #69693, posted 09-13-01 10:34 AM
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10:30am update.
Most of Staten Island has reopened, but remains subject to closure as they search for a suspect in a car. The Outerbridge continues to remain closed.

Most NYC transit continues to operate on schedule.


One interesting side note the MTA reports that normally their web site gets around 250,000 hits per day. Yesterday they had over 7 million hits.


KEVINKORELL
Member #69696, posted 09-13-01 11:42 AM
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Alan and Bill,
As NJT was not running buses into or out of NY for a couple of days, the #139 route buses here on Route 9 were running local service between Lakewood and Old Bridge only. The #64 and #67 buses were continuing to go to Jersey City and Newark respectively. My feeling is that since trains were running into and out of Penn Station, the #139 could have run beyond Old Bridge and served rail stations in South Amboy, Perth Amboy, or Metropark, allowing those who had to get to or from Midtown the means to do so.

It's too bad Exchange Place has to lose PATH service, but logistically it would have been hard to turn trains there. It's hard to believe I was just in that station on Saturday. One characteristic of the Exchange Place station is that when you're waiting for a westbound train, you feel a huge rush of wind coming from the tunnel under the Hudson River from the time a train departs the World Trade Center until it arrives in Exchange Place. Sadly, I experienced that for what could have been the last time. The only bright side to this is the existence of the light rail at both Exchange Place and Newport, so at least there still is a rail link into the area.

I have not heard any reports about the condition of the underground PATH station at the WTC, although I would imagine that debris fell into the station when the buildings collapsed. When the events unfolded between 8:45 and 9:05 that morning, PATH would have been operating at its rush hour frequency, and there would have been trains sitting at each platform or in the loop that leads between the station and the tunnel under the Hudson. By 10:30 when both buildings had collapsed, I don't know if PATH had already suspended service but I imagine they had since the area would have been surrounded by emergency equipment for 90 minutes. We may not know what is down there until debris at the surface is cleaned up.

------------------
Kevin Korell


Alan,

Take care and take trains!

#7 AlanB

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 07:24 PM

Alan Burden
Member #69697, posted 09-13-01 11:58 AM
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Kevin,
While I can’t speak to the condition of the Path tracks and station, although I would have to agree with your assessment, I can tell you a little bit that I have heard about the subways in that area.

This comes from an interview that NBC channel 4 had with Al O’Leary (sp) the MTA’s spokesman.

He said that preliminary reports indicate that at the very least the 7th Avenue #1 & #9 tracks and station at WTC are filled with debris. He said that they think that there may also have been a partial collapse of the station, but at the moment it is unclear if that has indeed happened. The #2 & #3 lines, which curve away to the east just before the WTC center, are filled with water. Again he was uncertain as to if this was caused by a broken water main or due to fire fighting efforts. No word on the condition of the N & R Broadway line or the 8th Avenue A, C & E lines.

My personal guess knowing the layout of the 8th Ave station is that the A and C tracks and station may still be intact and operable, once there is no danger of additional building collapses. However I would expect the terminal station for the E train has suffered some damage as it butts right up against the WTC complex.


KEVINKORELL
Member #69708, posted 09-13-01 05:15 PM
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As of 5 PM Thursday, here is the status of the New York City subway:
The A trains are running via the F route to Jay Street/Boro Hall for now, of course nonstop in the lower Manhattan area until the area around Chambers Street is secured. The C is not running at all. E trains are running normal in Queens and as far as West 4th Street, then via the F route into Brooklyn, replacing C local service in Brooklyn to Euclid Avenue. All A trains will run to Lefferts Blvd., with shuttles going from Euclid Avenue to the Rockaways.

The station at Park Place on the 2 and 3 lines remains flooded, and since there are physical connections between this station and the Chambers Street Station on the Eighth Avenue line, this could be why those trains are being diverted.

No 9 service is running. The 1 trains are not operating south of 14th Street. The 2 line is running only between 241st Street in the Bronx and 34th Street-Penn Station in Manhattan. No service in Brooklyn, but there are shuttles running from the Atlantic Avenue station complex to Flatbush Avenue. The 3 is only running as a shuttle from 148th Street/Lenox Terminal to 135th Street, for transfers to the 2. A shuttle runs from Atlantic Avenue in Brooklyn to New Lots Avenue.

There still exists the extreme danger of building collapses around the financial district, and that is why the Lexington Avenue 4 trains are not running south of 14th Street. The 6 is running from the Bronx to Grand Central Terminal only. The 5 trains are only running as a shuttle between Dyre Avenue and East 180th Street in the Bronx, for transfers with the 2.

Broadway Line trains, N and R have been suspended downtown as well. R trains are running from 95th Street/4th Avenue to Court Street in Brooklyn only, with no service in Manhattan or Brooklyn. The N is running in two sections, from Coney Island to Court Street in Brooklyn, and from 34th Street-Herald Square to Astoria. W and Q trains continue running over the Manhattan Bridge, but are providing local service in Manhattan, skipping Canal Street and Prince Street.

J and Z trains are running over the Williamsburg Bridge, but are terminating at the Delancy/Essex Streets complex, presumably just for transfers to the F line. The M is only a shuttle from Metropolitan Avenue to Broadway/Myrtle Avenue in Brooklyn.

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Kevin Korell


Alan Burden
Member #69730, posted 09-13-01 11:32 PM
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11:30pm update:
Metro North and LIRR expect to operate on a normal schedule.

Subways will run as Kevin outlined above. No changes are expected to that list until at least late Saturday.

NJT Trains are expected to run a normal schedule. Buses will continue to run into Manhattan, but not below 14th street. One service note however, all buses that serve Journal Square in Jersey City will not be stopping at that stop. The report says that this will remain in effect until September 30th. NJT will also continue its policy of cross honoring passes between buses and trains until the end of September.

All NY water ferries are expected to operate, although none will operate to the World Financial Center.

The Staten Island Ferry will still operate only for emergency personnel.

All of this is subject to ongoing police investigations. The other problem that continues to plague transit, is the fact that there have been over 90 bomb threats or suspicious packages phoned into the police today alone.

One final non transit note, most of the NYC TV stations are now reporting that they are back on the “Air Waves”. Since all of the stations’ broadcast antennas were on top of the WTC any one without cable or satellite has been unable to watch local TV.


Alan Burden
Member #69739, posted 09-14-01 11:53 AM
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Friday 11:00am Update.
Metro North, LIRR, and NJT continue to operate normal or as near as normal schedules.

Subways – The #4 line is reported to be back in operation along the full length of its run, albeit with no stop in lower Manhattan. At a recent press conference by the Mayor, he reported that the MTA has been running test train through lower Manhattan. He reports that they checked for vibrations in the WTC area and that all seems normal.

He therefore expects that throughout the weekend, in conjunction with the city reopening the Wall Street area that all lines east of Broadway will gradually reopen. This would include the 4 & 5 making stop within that area, and the resumption of full service on the J, M, and Z trains. There is no specific timetable for this, but the earliest would be Saturday morning.

No word on if the tunnel for the #2 & #3 lines has been pumped dry and will be usable. While this line is west of Broadway and may be to close for the vibrations, it does curve east prior to the WTC area. I strongly suspect that the A & C train tunnels will not reopen for at least a week and possibly much longer, as their tunnel basically makes its eastbound turn under the WTC complex.

I have heard no further information on the status of the tunnels, track, or stations for the #1, #9, N, & R lines. These lines also run directly under at least part of the WTC complex. Even if the lines are operable, the heavy vibration would probably be to much for some of the buildings that are barely standing as it is.

I have also heard an unconfirmed report that if the #2 & #3 tunnels remain unusable that the following diversions might be implemented. The #3 would travel down 7th Avenue to 34th Street. The #2 would run down the Lexington Avenue line, before resuming its normal route in Brooklyn. The #4 would run as normal. The #5 would run down the Lexington Avenue line to Bowling Green like it does during off peak hours, then it would go around the South Ferry outer loop and stop at the #1 & #9 station at South Ferry before resuming its normal route back uptown. This would facilitate a connection with the Staten Island Ferry. During off peak hours the #5 normally goes around the inner South Ferry loop, which no longer has a station. Again I stress that this is one possible scenario for Monday and has not been confirmed.

Staten Island Ferry – Currently is expected to resume normal service on Monday.


Alan,

Take care and take trains!

#8 AlanB

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 07:26 PM

KEVINKORELL
Member #69740, posted 09-14-01 12:47 PM
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Of course the walk is not bad between the ferry terminal at South Ferry and the Bowling Green station -- it's just across the park. But running the 5 is a good way to serve South Ferry since those trains usually turn around in lower Manhattan anyway.
They still don't know the condition of the 1/9 station at Cortland Street, which was accessed only through the World Trade Center concourse. They say it could be either a pocket of life, or sadly a tomb. Since the platform is roughly in between the two towers, maybe there is some hope that debris did not get into the tunnel.

The N/R station for Cortland Street is a little further south, possibly right adjacent to the South Tower.

Hopefully the collapse cut the power to the third rail, which could have given people a place to run if they had to. I guess we won't know until they get down there. But I wonder if the MTA is able to try and get to the area via the tracks, perhaps in a high rail vehicle that does not cause vibrations?

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Kevin Korell


Alan Burden
Member #69742, posted 09-14-01 01:18 PM
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Kevin,
You’re right it’s not that long of a walk, about a block and a half, I’ve done it myself. But serving the South Ferry station would be a great help in moving the vast number of people coming off the SI Ferry. Plus as I mentioned since the #5 normally goes around the inner loop off peak, switching it to the outer loop is both possible and does not increase it’s running time, other than that required for the stop. Plus many times I’ve seen a #5 sitting on the inner loop waiting for its assigned time to begin its uptown journey.

I'm not aware if the MTA has any high rail vehicles that are assigned to the Subways. I suppose that one could be brought in from either the LIRR or Metro North. I do wonder however, if there could be any clearance issues with this.

They could however just use one of their work diesels down in the area. While they could not stay down there for two long as the fumes could overpower, running at a low speed of 2-5 miles per hour would not create significant vibrations.

I have not heard any reports that they have indeed done this, however I would not be surprised if they have not tried. I think that this is how Al O’Leary knew about the damage to the #1 & #9 stations. I would also not be surprised if the MTA has conveyed rescue workers into the area in this fashion, in an attempt to rescue people. Both trapped in the stations and also in the sub-basements of the WTC complex.

I also just recently heard a confirmed report that rescuers have managed to break into the sub-basement of WTC building #7. From here it is possible, depending on damage and debris, to access the entire underground concourse of the WTC. No reports, yet, of any luck finding survivors.


KEVINKORELL
Member #69746, posted 09-14-01 05:40 PM
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PATH --- Bad news. The tunnel under the Hudson River is flooded, most likely from firefighting efforts. No survivors found in the PATH WTC station.

quote:
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(Jersey City-AP) -- Jersey City firefighters have abandoned efforts to motorboat through a flooded PATH rail tunnel. They were attempting to see if there were any survivors by the World Trade Center train platform. But New York authorities working through a tunnel vent in lower Manhattan have determined that there are no signs of life.

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------------------
Kevin Korell


Alan Burden
Member #69752, posted 09-14-01 06:11 PM
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One news source now reports that it will a very long time before service can be restored to the #1 & #9 lines.

quote:
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The Number 1 Trains are not likely to run in the near future south of Chambers Street to South Ferry due to a severe structural damage in the tunnel that has occured between Chambers Street and Rector Street.
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No word if any of the stations were damaged, or just how much of the tunnel may have problems, nor whether the damage is spread through out the entire length of the segment listed above or if it is all in one or two spots.

It should also be noted that if they resume #2 & #3 train service to Brooklyn, it will not be possible to run the #1 & #9 past 14th street. Worse in order to do that, it would require switching all local trains to the express tracks after 42nd Street and sending all express trains to the local tracks after 42nd Street. Even that may be to complicated and complex of a switching problem during rush hour service.

Frankly while it might be even more confusing to the public for awhile, it would probably be easier to reverse the express and locals at 96th street where the two lines come together to form the 4 track main. So it will be very interesting to see what they do, if indeed this report is correct.


Alan,

Take care and take trains!

#9 AlanB

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 07:28 PM

KEVINKORELL
Member #69764, posted 09-14-01 08:48 PM
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Don, sadly those are questions which might never be answered, because those who would have been coordinating such an evacuation might have perished with the passengers.
I think PATH should have an idea of where its trains were at the time of impact, and where they were at the time of the building collapse. Have they said they are missing any equipment?

PATH has a map (similar to AMTRAK's in Wilmington) located in the Journal Square station that pinpoints the location of each of its trains. I'd like to hear them say that after the first jet crashed into the building, they immediately ran all of their trains out of the WTC and cleared the station. Such a smart action would have minimized, if not eliminated, any loss of life or equipment among its passengers and crew.

The other question is, did the PATH station and third rail lose power when the jet impact occurred? That of course would have hampered getting people and trains out of there.

The fact that the tunnel was full of water is scary -- hopefully the tunnel itself was not compromised and that the water is from the building's plumbing or from several days of firefighting. Some of that "water" could even be dangerous jet fuel.

All I know is, I was on that PATH system just 3 days before the events of Tuesday, and I was as close to WTC as the Exchange Place station, which is now closed because it's on the WTC line. Who would have dreamed we would be discussing this just 6 days later?

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Kevin Korell


Alan Burden
Member #69765, posted 09-14-01 09:09 PM
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Don,
I haven’t heard much of anything about the NYC subways, however I would suspect that the MTA probably shut down the subways if not prior to the second plane hitting, then immediately after. That’s pretty much standard for them with any big fire or disaster.

I can tell you that I have read to separate stories about Path. The first from Trains.com.


quote:
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PATH’s station beneath the Hoboken Terminal was the site of a triage station that treated people with minor wounds who had taken the train from Manhattan Tuesday morning before service stopped.
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The second and perhaps more scary is a story that says that not only are the Hudson River Tunnels flooded, but that Path has one train that they cannot account for. The report does not state if they know if the train was in the station at the time or if it is stuck in the Manhattan side of the Hudson tubes. I can’t currently find where I read this story, having read a few hundred different stories and refreshes of transit sites, but if and when I do find it I will put up a link to it.

After continuous pumping of the tunnels from the New Jersey side, firefighters from Jersey City riding in a boat are still unable to reach Manhattan. The water level is still floor to ceiling at the lowest point. I have not heard of any attempts to go down the tunnels from the NY side, nor if the rescuers who got to the platforms under WTC saw the missing train.

I was actually in WTC catching a Path train on Friday the 31st of August. I was on my way to NJ to ride the new Newark City Subway and meet my mother at the end of the line.


Alan Burden
Member #69767, posted 09-14-01 10:40 PM
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10:30pm Friday updates.
Metro North, LIRR and NJT – All expect to operate normal Saturday schedules for tomorrow.

Path – Will operate on a normal Saturday headway, but again for obvious reasons, will run Newark trains to 33rd Street instead of WTC.

Subways – The biggest change for tomorrow will occur here. Starting at around 6 or 7am full service will resume on the #4 line. It will make all stops in Manhattan providing the first train service to Wall St since Tuesday. It remains unclear if the #5 will also resume normal service, or will continue to end in the Bronx.

The mayor also said that all subways east of Broadway would be running. However, when he read of the list of stops it did not include any of the stops on the Nassau loop which carries the J, M, & Z lines. Therefore it remains unclear if those trains will be running south of Canal Street or not. I will update this as soon as it becomes clear.

Buses – MTA buses will operate on two avenues east of Broadway south of Canal Street. One avenue will be used for the downtown runs and one for uptown. (Cars will remain off limits south of Canal St.)

Staten Island Ferry – Still expected to resume normal service on Monday.


Alan Burden
Member #69775, posted 09-15-01 08:11 AM
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8:00am Saturday Morning update:

All commuter railroads continue to anticipate running on a normal weekend schedule.

Subway changes for Saturday and Sunday are as follows:

The most shocking of the announced changes is the resumption of service on the A line. I’m absolutely stunned that this train will be running, as according to the maps I have, this line dives under the WTC complex before turning to the east and Brooklyn. Nevertheless this train will make no stops south of Canal St except for the Fulton St.-Broadway Nassau stop. It currently appears that the E train is continuing to follow the F train’s route to Brooklyn from West 4th street, prior to resuming replacement service for the C train in Brooklyn.

The #4 trains will resume a normal schedule with one exception; they will not stop at the Wall Street station. All other stops will be made. I’m not sure about the #5 train one section of the MTA’s web page says that the train is stopping at the Fulton St and Bowling Green stations. The other section says it’s still not going south of 180th Street in the Bronx. The #6 train will resume normal service to all stops in Manhattan including the Brooklyn Bridge Station.

The J & Z trains will also resume service to the Broadway Station. This is an interesting move for two reasons. One the Z is a rush hour skip-stop service, so I don’t understand why it’s running on a Saturday. Two there is no mention of the Broad Street station being open. This is the last stop in Manhattan; it’s also the only place south of the Brooklyn Bridge station, that trains can change tracks to head back uptown. While realizing that the station does not need to be open for the trains to stop and reverse there, it does seem silly not to open the station.

No word on the resumption of service for the N & R or the #2 & #3 trains.

Path reports no changes to their service pattern from the last few days. All trains will run essentially on a normal Saturday schedule, wherever possible.


Alan,

Take care and take trains!

#10 AlanB

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 07:30 PM

KEVINKORELL
Member #69780, posted 09-15-01 12:32 PM
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Alan, my understanding is that the 4 and 5 subway lines are running the full length of Manhattan and both are entering Brooklyn, to provide replacement service for the 2 and 3. The 4 is going as far as New Lots Avenue to replace 3 service, while the 5 runs to Nostrand/Flatbush Avenues to replace the 2.
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Kevin Korell


Alan Burden
Member #69783, posted 09-15-01 01:13 PM
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Kevin, that would make the most sense. But when I checked out the MTA's site 10 minutes ago it's still stating that the 5 ends at 180th Street. Personally I think that it is an oversight on their part.
However, I have also heard several other very intesting and conflicting reports. Although I doubt that they are true, which is why I have not reported them. One of the more interesting reports was that the R was running it's normal route. I discounted it however because what they reported for the rest of the Broadway line conflicted with that possibility.


Alan Burden
Member #69815, posted 09-16-01 11:12 AM
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The latest as of Sunday Morning.

Subway – According to official reports from the MTA here are the current runs and diversions.

On the 7th Avenue lines, the 1 continues to run only as far south as 14th street. The 2 & 3 run south to 34th street. No word on if the 9 will run on Monday it’s normal day, but I suspect that it will not operate do to lack of place to turn the train back uptown.

Lexington Avenue lines 4, 5, & 6are essentially running normally, with the following exceptions. Both the 4 & 5 are still skipping the Wall street station. In addition the 4 has been extended in Brooklyn to New Lots Ave. The 5 which normally does not run into Brooklyn on the weekend, does continue to run it’s full route in Brooklyn to Flatbush Avenue.

On the Broadway lines the N now runs into Brooklyn via the Manhattan Bridge. It is also skipping the stop at Prince Street and Canal Street. No word as to why it’s skipping those stops. The R is also running via the Manhattan Bridge, but is stopping at Canal & Prince Streets. The W train continues to run local in Manhattan and Brooklyn. Normally this train does not operate into Manhattan on the weekends. The Q local is running normally. No word if the Q express will operate on Monday. I suspect that with the N & R running on the Manhattan Bridge that there may not be enough headway room left to run the Q express over the bridge.

On the 8th Avenue lines the A continues to operate as normal, except that is skips the Chambers Street stop. The E train run normal in Queens, local in Manhattan to Canal Street, then into Brooklyn where it runs local. It also does not stop at Chambers St. An interesting side note is that the last time the E ran this route was before the WTC was built. The C continues to remain suspended.

The Nassau Street trains the J & Z are operating to Broad St. Manhattan. This would be considered normal weekend service except that the Z does not normally run on the weekend. The M train runs it’s normal weekend service in Brooklyn.

All service continues to be normal on all trains running on Sixth Avenue, which includes the B, D, F, & the S shuttles.

The #7, the L, the G, and all shuttles are running normal weekend service.


Path – No reported changes from the operating plan of the last few days. Stories continue to surface regarding a missing train, either in the WTC station or one of the tunnels. There is still no direct confirmation from the Port Authority on this matter. While the staff does have it’s hands full dealing with the disaster and the security issues at it remaining facilities, it does lead me to believe that this story may sadly be true, since they are not denying the rumors.


Alan Burden
Member #69819, posted 09-16-01 07:46 PM
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Sunday night update:

There are major changes coming again for Monday subway service. The following trains will not run until further notice; C, N, R, Z, 9.

Now the actual breakdown.

The number 1 will run normal to 96th street, where it will switch to the express tracks. It will then run express to 14th street, which will be its last stop. The 2 & 3 trains will operate normally to 96th street, where they will then run local. They will then make all local stops to Franklin Street. The train will not stop at the Chambers Street station nor the Park Place station. They will run normally in Brooklyn.

Over to Lexington Avenue where the 4, 5, & 6 will all run normally, with one exception. The 4 & 5 will not stop at the Wall Street station until further notice.

On 8th Avenue, the A will run normal with two minor exceptions. The first is that it will skip the Chambers Street stop. It will however stop at the 163rd Street station and the 155th Street Station, to replace the C which is not running. The E will run normal in Queens and Manhattan until it reaches Canal Street. Then it will follow the normal route for the C train into Brooklyn. It will also skip Chambers Street and then make all stop in Brooklyn that the C would normally make.

Now for the Broadway line where there are some big changes. As I mentioned above the N & R will cease running. The W will replace the N and make all local stops in Manhattan north of Canal. It will also run local in Queens to Ditmars Blvd. The Q local or circle will run normal in Brooklyn and local in Manhattan to 57th Street. It will then be extended into Queens to replace the discontinued R train. The Q express will operate as normal.

Perhaps the most sweeping changes will occur on the Nassau Street line. The J will run local from Parsons/Archer in Queens to Broad Street in Manhattan. Skip stop service with the Z has been suspended. It will then continue through the Montaque Street tunnels into Brooklyn where it will replace the R train on 4th Avenue to 95th Street. The M train will run as normal to Broad Street Manhattan, then continue into Brooklyn and replace the N train.

It should be pointed out here that not only does this mean that many more people will now be forced to change trains to arrive at their final destination. It also adds a capacity problem to the equation. Both the J & M are 8 car consists, due to station lengths and structural strength along their normal route. They are replacing trains that are normally 10 car consists.

All other trains will operate as normal.


The MTA also expects that the bottom end of the Broadway line to be out of service for several weeks, at least until the rescue and cleanup at WTC are finished. They also say they expect the World Trade Station on the E line will be closed until the cleanup is finished. The 1 & 9 lines are closed indefinitely as they are reporting structural damage to the tunnels.


Alan,

Take care and take trains!




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