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Virginia RailFest options for January 2017


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#1 KevinKorell

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 06:48 PM

This is not a Fest announcement, just a means to choose the activities.  Traditionally, at least twice a year we get together to ride the rails in a particular city or area.   Our Fests have happened mostly in January and July. 

 

The Fests during the winter have largely been in East Coast locations since for most the available travel time is much shorter for folks to travel to & from the host city. For the upcoming 2017 event, there is not much new that we can do.  We waited for several years while DC Streetcar was being cleared to open, and finally it is a reality. However that in itself is not a prudent reason for going to Washington, DC.  It was suggested during one of our weekly Sunday Chat sessions that we could focus on Amtrak and do day or overnight trips out of Washington into the state of Virginia. We can then work the DC Streetcar into an itinerary based on what else we end up doing, since it starts & ends behind Union Station on the H Street Bridge.

 

We again can meet over the MLK holiday weekend.  There was some concern about the Washington, DC area with this being a presidential inauguration year. However the 20th falls on the following Friday so things should be OK for the desired weekend.

 

I have put together a number of potential one-day and overnight trips. It would be possible to mix & match multiple options – perhaps two one-day trips, or one day trip plus one overnight trip.  Some of these ideas will probably eliminate themselves due to poor calling times (such as a 6:15 AM start), but they are there for purposes of comparison.   My analysis follows.  Based on what the preferences end up being, we can then add a trip on the DC Streetcar while in Washington either before, between, or after the Virginia trips.  So the full actual itinerary for this event is yet to be written once we have an idea what the majority wants to do.

 

The web pages with the potential ideas are indexed here:   http://kevinkorell.com/vrf/vrfideas.htm

 

Let’s preview each option.  First, the same-day trips.

·         Plan A is a round trip between Washington and Richmond, southbound on the Palmetto (89) and northbound on the Carolinian (80). It provides about 2 hours layover at Richmond-Staples Mill for lunch off the rails. 

·         Plan B is a round trip between Washington and the Tidewater area, southbound on Regional 65 and northbound on Regional 66. I broke it down into 3 sub-plans.  Plan B1 is strictly the train to & from Newport News. This would be approximately 6 hours layover in Newport News. Plans B2 & B3 utilize the Thruway bus connection to Norfolk & Virginia Beach respectively.  A Norfolk layover would be about 3 hours, during which lunch and possibly a quick spin on Tide light rail could take place.  Going all the way to the Virginia Beach Oceanfront, that would result in about 1-1/2 hours for lunch.

·         Plan C is a round trip to Charlottesville using the Cardinal (51 westbound, 50 eastbound) in both directions.  By the timetable there is a little under 1-1/2 hours dwell there.  This choice is only possible on Friday or Sunday given the Cardinal’s thrice-weekly nature.

·         Plan D would be a round trip to Manassas, using the Cardinal (51) there and Northeast Regional (156) back. This trip is only possible on Sunday given the Cardinal’s thrice-weekly nature and the Regional train running later than it does on weekdays. (It does not work on Friday.)  Dwell between trains here is 47 minutes.

 

Now the overnight choices:

·         Plan E would be an overnight trip to Charlottesville, using Northeast Regionals. It was broken down into Plans E1 & E2 only because the Friday evening southbound train runs on a different schedule than the weekend southbound train. E1 would be Friday night returning on Saturday, while E2 would be either Saturday night returning on Sunday, or Sunday night returning on the holiday Monday.

·         Plan F represents an overnight trip to Richmond, using Northeast Regionals. This was broken down into Plans F1, F2, & F3 only because of different train numbers and/or slightly different times depending on which pair of days might be chosen. This would be to Richmond’s Main Street Station downtown, not Staples Mill.  Downtown hotels offer free shuttle service from & to this station.

·         Plan G would be an overnight Tidewater trip using the Newport News Regional trains. These hinge on using the Thruway bus connection at Newport News with either downtown Norfolk or the Virginia Beach Oceanfront. Both offer many hotel choices. Sub-plans again are as follows: Plan G1A is Norfolk leaving Friday evening & returning Saturday. Plan G1B would be the same days only for Virginia Beach. Plan G2A would be for Norfolk either originating Saturday & returning Sunday, or starting Sunday and coming back on the Monday holiday.  Plan G2B would be the same days for Virginia Beach.

·         Plan H would be an overnight Tidewater trip using the Norfolk Regional trains. The sub-plans are for different train numbers and times for different days of the week: H1 is Friday into Saturday, and H2 would be for a Saturday or Sunday start and a Sunday or Monday trip completion.

Obviously, overnight options mean bringing luggage along. But it’s Amtrak so that is less of an issue than riding subways, light rail, or commuter rail with it. Day trips would allow luggage to be left behind at a hotel in the Washington area.

 

Please respond and let me know your preferences.   I'll create a separate forum for this event once we have an idea of what the itinerary will be.  Hopefully we can have a decision by the end of November.



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#2 KevinKorell

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 06:50 PM

 Here is my own analysis for the Virginia options:

Plan A: Very possible and probably the safest of all day trip options since there are multiple trains in the corridor.

Plan B: Of the three sub-choices, B1 would be least popular for me. 6 hours layover is a long time, and around the current Newport News station there is not much to do, probably not many places even to go eat for a while.  B3, Virginia Beach, fills time better with the necessary long bus trip, but allows only 1-1/2 hours for lunch, assuming an on-time arrival. And it is the beach area in January; enough said. Therefore of the 3 options B2 works best. Enough time for lunch and maybe a quick spin on Tide LRT. But one also must consider what can happen if the train and/or connecting bus are late.

Plan C: I know of railfans doing this Cardinal round trip for many years, even going as far as Staunton when the schedule allowed it.  The roughly 1-1/2 hours layover in Charlottesville is OK, assuming 51 arrives close to schedule.  I assume for a 1:52 PM arrival we would have already had lunch on the train.  While I’ve done it before, I just took this trip again on Friday. Here is food for thought. My train 51 was delayed near Virginia Avenue junction in Washington, and again around AF Interlocking just beyond Alexandria by signal issues on Norfolk Southern. At one point the crew talked about backing up and returning to the Alexandria station. While we eventually did get going, and were ultimately about ½ hour late into Charlottesville, it naturally could have been worse.  If 50 were to be missed at Charlottesville, the next one is 2 or 3 days later.  There’s the Crescent & Northeast Regional the following morning, but we probably would not have luggage along with us to stay in a hotel.  What I think saves this is that 51 and 50 meet somewhere west of Charlottesville, so if 51 is late, it will accordingly delay 50 at the meet point.  Then again, I know some of us like to live adventurously so I’m as game as I was on this week’s trip, not that I had much opportunity to abort the mission once past Alexandria. If chosen, with modern technology we can watch performance of both trains.

Plan D:  Only possible on Sunday, and only allows 47 minutes dwell. Same concern as above if something were to happen to 51. But, if all is working smoothly, not a bad wait between trains in Manassas.  There are stores and restaurants nearby which can serve as shelter from the cold.  No VRE alternatives on a Sunday.

Plan E:  Overnight in Charlottesville removes the worry of missing the return train.   Most hotels are walking distance from the station.  Downside is the southbound trip would be totally in darkness (Washington departure a little before 5 PM). The northbound trip however leaves after 11 AM so daylight is ensured.

Plan F:   Richmond Main Street has a lot more limited service than the Staples Mill location. However the calling times are not bad at all.  Starting on a Friday evening would ensure dinner in Richmond and be in daylight hours except for close to arrival.  The weekend southbound schedule is 2-1/2 hours later, so dinner would be aboard the train more than likely and it will be dark outside. Return trips each day are in mid-morning but we get to Washington at a reasonable time for lunch.  Wide variety of hotels in downtown Richmond, and most have shuttles or walkable (but please check with them to be sure!).

Plan G:  Tidewater via Newport News:  Norfolk and Virginia Beach have a variety of hotels.  In Norfolk most are either walking distance from Amtrak (the Thruway bus stop) or a TIDE light rail station.  Virginia Beach has dozens of hotels along the Oceanfront, within blocks of the Amtrak Thruway bus stop. But what sours me on this is the limited time we would have there. The biggest minus is the return bus departures which leave either location in the 6 AM hour. The G1A & G1B options for Friday get to either destination at a reasonable time (8 PM or so) but G2A & G2B on weekends is around 10 PM, way too late if one has to catch a bus less than 8 hours later the next morning.

Plan H: Tidewater via Norfolk train:  Same applies for Norfolk hotels.  Again what I think may kill this idea is the late arrival (particularly on the weekend, not so bad on Friday night) and more importantly, the 6:15 AM departure next morning no matter which day.

 

So in summation, personally I would eliminate all versions of Plans G & H (Tidewater overnight) off the bat.  For overnight options that leaves Richmond or Charlottesville, both of which hotel rates and availability may help us make decisions.  Of the day trips, Richmond seems best, Charlottesville is an adventure, and Manassas might be too risky.  Of the daytime Tidewater options, B2 Norfolk is best and I’d eliminate B1 & B3.  Probably doing a Richmond day trip as well as a Richmond overnight trip would be unlikely, so my view is either a Richmond day trip plus Charlottesville overnight, Norfolk or Charlottesville day trip plus Richmond overnight, or some other combinations of the two day trips or two overnight trips. What others feel will help dictate what eventually surfaces.



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#3 pennyk

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 07:08 PM

I personally like the idea of day trips from DC.

 

I have done some research on hotel rooms (Hilton properties).

Thursday night, the HGI Chelsea (walking distance from NYP) is $99 King AAA rate.

Friday and Saturday nights, the HGI Capitol in NoMa (walking distance from WAS) is $93/night King AAA rate. (Sunday is higher, but not outrageous).

I looked at the Richmond hotels.  There are 2 Hilton properties fairly close to Main Street station (Hilton and Hampton).  Hilton is sold out for Friday and Saturday and is $269 (HH King rate) Sunday night.  Hampton is $160 for Friday and Saturday (AAA King) and $170 for Sunday night.

 

I am thinking of traveling from Florida to NYP, spending Thursday night, then coming down to DC for Saturday, Sunday and Monday nights.



#4 pennyk

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 07:21 PM

My preference would be:

 

doing something local on Friday.

day trip to Richmond on Saturday

either day trip or overnight trip to CVS on Sunday (Sunday/Monday if overnight)

 

I think the Tidewater day trips are very long days for routes that may be in the dark and that many of us have already ridden.



#5 KevinKorell

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 07:33 PM

 

I looked at the Richmond hotels.  There are 2 Hilton properties fairly close to Main Street station (Hilton and Hampton).  Hilton is sold out for Friday and Saturday and is $269 (HH King rate) Sunday night.  Hampton is $160 for Friday and Saturday (AAA King) and $170 for Sunday night.

 

All quite high.  Hilton used to be an HGI when I was there is summer 2015 but they were in process of upgrading it.  I suppose they upgraded the rates too :(  .  The Hampton Inn is fairly new, and it also shares the same building with a Homewood Suites.



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#6 KevinKorell

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 08:51 PM

I looked too at a Friday night journey.   VRE to Manassas or Broad Run is possible as a round trip due to the existence of contra-flow trips.  There is however no convenient VRE train that would get us to Manassas within reasonable time to catch the Cardinal (50) back to Washington.  However if we knew that the Cardinal was running quite late this could be evaluted and I suppose we could buy tickets last minute.  But dining on the train would not be possible save for a quick trip to the café car since they begin to close things down approaching Washington and the power loss due to engine change.

 

On the other line, VRE now operates beyond Fredericksburg to Spotsylvania, however there are no revenue return trips.  So one would still need to get off VRE at Fredericksburg and return on Amtrak. But  I don't think we want to go through the platform shuffle at Fredericksburg we experienced in 2013.

 

So therefore if we are not doing any overnight Amtrak trips that involve Saturday night, a full VRE trip to Manassas or Broad Run is the only option in Virginia.   I see 2 contra-flow trains; one gets back to Washington before dinnertime, and the other 6:25 PM.  The latter again would be after dark almost the entire round trip.

 

Another alternative would be some MARC/Amtrak combination Baltimore and back.



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#7 steve4031

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 09:35 PM

My preference would be B2 and the Richmond day trip. Either day is fine.

#8 jacorbett70

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 10:36 PM

I have a feeling: 89/80 day trip to RVR on Saturday and the 51/50 day trip to CVS on Sunday.



#9 BillMagee

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 09:48 AM

My preferred trips:

  • Richmond day (easy day trip from PHL)
  • Richmond overnight
  • Charlottesville overnight

Undesirable (for me):

  • Tidewater day (too long, night travel on return, would require my staying over two nights in DC)
  • Charlottesville day (too risky with only one return option)
  • Both Tidewater overnight options (morning departure too early)

Manassas is OK.



#10 jacorbett70

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 12:34 PM

Both Tidewater overnight options (morning departure too early)

 

Same for me; on my Norfolk trip I took the outbound Norfolk train (Friday schedule) and stayed much of the next day in NFK instead of taking the early morning return. I took the bus to train 66 to Alexandria and stayed the second night there.

Also the Newport News area has nothing, making the 1.5 hour dwell time boring even for the bus connection. Extra time was allowed in the schedule in case of tunnel traffic.






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