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COMMUTER RAIL SERVICE IN THE CHARLESTON, SC, AREA.


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#1 remoat

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 07:36 PM

i have lived in charleston, sc, for more than 40 years and am retired.. since the fall of 2015, i have attempted to stimulate interest in proposing a local commuter rail system in the charleston "tri-county" area.. exponential growth in this region is outstripping available resources.. charleston is in desperate need of a better way to transport people in and out of its metropolitan area.. i have sent emails to more than 100 orgs., including local, state and fed. govt. agencies and elected officials, chambers of commerce, newspapers, radio and tv stations in the charleston area.. i received no reply.. i sent email to a dozen public-relations firms in the charleston area asking for suggestions as to bringing the need for commuter rail in this area.. i received no reply.. i emailed the nat. rail pass. assn. and the am. public trans. assn.. neither replied.. i have no clue as to the reluctance of anyone to discuss the need, or lack of it, for commuter rail service.. can someone offer me pointers to be used that would start a dialog among citizens and the media to interest residents and govts. in the value of a commuter rail system in this area? if newspapers, radio and tv stations ignore me, where can i go to post my message to be heard or read?

i live on social security and am unemployed.. im just a middle-class retiree who wants to attract attention to a local need in the community of charleston, sc, whose population approaches 500,000.. can a person's message be heard if they are not rich, influential or elected? what would you suggest? thank you.



#2 KevinKorell

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 08:14 PM

I am sorry that your attempts to get interest in commuter rail are not being heeded.  But the best thing to do is to keep on trying, while realizing that perhaps the demand may just not be there.  I am sure your area is experiencing growth, but is it enough to support a few commuter trains per day between the suburbs and downtown?  In addition, are you sure it is "commuter rail" you seek for the area, or more of a transit type rail service such as light rail ?  Often the press misses the differentiation between the modes and thus might not understand your request. 
 
I would suggest if you keep pursuing this, to look at more local sources rather than national. NARP is good, but it has local affiliates more in tune with issues relevant to their areas.  In your vicinity it is Carolinas Association for Passenger Trains (CAPT) whose reach is the two Carolinas.   Their website is http://captrail.org/.    There is also a discussion group for the 2 states, so try sending the above in e-mail form to        carolinapassengertrains@yahoogroups.com  .



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#3 Sloan

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 09:12 AM

Bravo to you, remote, for your persistent commuter rail advocacy.

 

I have visited Charleston during Spoleto Festival, and you are absolutely right that traffic is a mess in the downtown.  More off-street parking is not the answer as parking lots will:  detract from Charleston's historic character, produce "dead zones" conducive to crime, exacerbate flooding, and add pollutants from idling cars.

 

On January 24, 2015, my notes tell me that CARTA planned to explore the possibility of establishing a battery powered streetcar system that would shuttle people from the port to downtown.  I've seen nary a word on that project since.

 

Kevin's recommendation that you get involved with CAPT is spot-on.  Your advocacy will gain strength by being part of a group.  That said, you could also confront public officials at meetings.  Policymakers do want to hear from citizens who speak politely and have references to back up claims.

 

Your senators and local congressperson usually have town meetings where you can air your views, and they will give you a response.  Same is true for your state representative and senator. (Maybe you can see them during Spoleto?)  Also, county government participates in a metropolitan planning organization (MPO).  The MPO conducts feasibility studies on transportation and the projects, and is the recipient and dispenser of federal funding.  Those folks are good people to know as well.

 

Hope this info is useful to you in your quest to bring regional rail to Charleston.

 

:)   Sloan

 

 



#4 remoat

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 12:07 PM

this address is not available..

carolinapassengertrains@yahoogroups.com

 

the org. has no scheduled meetings for 2017 in the charleston area..

http://captrail.org/

 

i am not very familiar with the differences between "commuter rail:" and "light rail".. possibly "c-r" is for systems that extend beyond a city's boundaries, and could grow as it wished; "l-r" might be confined within a city limits, and regulated by city ordnances.. "c-r" might be the modern version of highly-popular "interurban" systems that ran from the late 19th century to after wwii, when the "big 3" automakers bought all the "traction companies" they could get their hands on, and disbanded them to insure a viable market for cars to be built in post-war america.. my idea is for transit up to 50 mi. beyond the metro area.. it was suggested that i might attend an open comment meeting held by carta, our local bus co.. open comment meetings are held monthly.. i would have up to 3 min. to make my case.. if interested, go to the carta website.. the schedule is posted..

 

thanks for your comments and suggestions.. being an older person, i would not hope to see completion of such an enterprise, but i would be grateful to my "higher power" to see construction begun in my lifetime..



#5 KevinKorell

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 12:57 PM

The discussion group is here:  https://groups.yahoo...ngerTrains/info . I had lifted the e-mail URL from that page. I fixed the link above also to work directly for e-mail.
 

i am not very familiar with the differences between "commuter rail:" and "light rail"..

If you are going to advocate for something, you need to know exactly what it is you want, and convey same to those who you hope will listen... and that goes for politicians and the media.  You all need to be on the same page. Here are the different types of trains, with my definitions of them:
 
Heavy Rail:  This is a frequent high capacity train, almost always in multiple units and usually propelled by electricity (third rail).  Usually totally grade separated either underground or elevated.  It is found in very high density areas. Examples would be New York City's subways, Washington Metro, BART in California, etc.
Light Rail:  Trolley-like vehicle that usually operates with overhead electric catenary. Some cases they run diesel as well.  Can operate either grade separated, or within streets. Can be single or multiple vehicles.  Operates frequently. Examples:  DART in Dallas, Hudson-Bergen Line in North Jersey.  The RiverLINE in South Jersey is a diesel dependent vehicle which has its own engine in the middle of the car.
Streetcar: A subset of light rail, with more frequent stops, almost like a bus that might stop at every corner. Overall route would be shorter than that of regular light rail.
Commuter Rail:  Large passenger cars with many seats either self propelled with overhead catenary wires or hauled by a diesel or electric engine.  Less frequent than light or heavy rail, and in some places trains are only oriented towards the primary direction of travel (towards downtown on weekday mornings and away from downtown on weekday evenings).  In busier places where there is demand, there may be contra-flow, midday, evening, and weekend trains as well.  Runs on regular railroad rights-of-way, rarely within the street.
Intercity Rail:  Amtrak, which you are familiar with in Charleston.  Usually much fewer daily frequencies than the other modes above, unless it is regional rail such as that in the Northeast Corridor where there are hourly (or better) frequencies .  There are a few regional rail corridors around the country in North Carolina, Illinois, California, etc. with 2, 3, and as many as 7 to 10 trains per day in each direction.


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#6 remoat

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 04:39 PM

so, from your glossary of rail terms, i got it right with "c-r" and "l-r", which are the only categories that concern me just now.. i am interested in all kinds of rail systems in the u.s., but today i am focusing on transit methods fitting charleston's needs for easing traffic flow.. while there may be groups supporting transit issues meeting in various places in and out of charleston, i am not available for travel.. my soc. sec. budget does not allow for "overnights" or "daytrips".. whatever i can do locally, in terms of writing and meeting, such as "public comment" sessions with boards, attending public workshops, etc., i can do, but it must be local.. thanks for your comments..



#7 remoat

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 01:00 PM

NOTE: THIS IS THE POST WHICH I HAVE EMAILED TO 100+ ADDRESS FOR ALMOST 1 1/2 YEARS.. IT ISNT A PROFESSIONAL DOCUMENT, IT ISNT PERFECT, IT ISNT COMPREHENSIVE.. BUT ITS HOW I STARTED.. IT NEEDS WORK, I KNOW THAT.. I HOPE SOMEONE OR SOME OUTFIT WILL GIVE IT ENOUGH CREDIT AS A WAY TO PUT CHARLESTON, SC, ON THE TRACK TO BETTER MANAGE ITS HIGHWAY TRAFFIC FLOW, SO THAT THE AREA CAN GROW ECONOMICALLY, ADD FAMILIES, ENCOURAGE TOURISTS, RETIREES AND ANYONE WHO MIGHT SPEND TIME HERE PLEASANT EXPERIENCES IN TRAVELING THRU THE AREA..

THIS MEMO IS IN SUPPORT OF, AND AN ADVOCATE FOR, a rail transit initiative in the tri-county area, which could be realized in 20 years.. the opening system would be added to accommodate growth throughout the tri-county area.. sustaining growth in the metropolitan area of charleston-berkeley-dorchester areas is best supported by a mixture of bus and rail transit.. bus services handle small groups of passengers along variable routes where stops can be altered at any time.. rail transit handles larger groups of people along a fixed route with stops at fixed points.. both modes are viable solutions within a defined context.. bus routes are already in place between the major cities and the suburbs; they can be added to and re-routed with little effort or expense.. 

rail transit, because of its large capitalization and lead time, must be well-planned and presented to various agencies for funding and approval, as well as inviting the public's input and critiquing to optimize the network, whether small or extensive in its reach..

the plan proposed here is to draw a basic sketch of rail plans between charleston-n. charleston to the outer reaches of the rural areas of the tri-county area..

>> a route (with stations) could be planned from downtown charleston, to n. charleston, to summerville, jedburg and terminate at st. george..
>> a second route (with stations) would travel from n. charleston to goose creek and moncks corner..

depending on the success of the initial plans, system extensions and branches could be added where needed..

a station in downtown charleston could be built (with railroad approval) in the "neck area".. there is room and tracks between king st. extension and meeting st. rd where a station and parking could be planned.. the owner railroad would agree to lease the property and offer unused trackage, or footage along the right-of-way for development by a rail transit authority.. a station at this point would be a convenient stop for bus riders to change to rail transit and vice-versa.. "park-and-ride" acreage should be easily contracted for riders to leave their cars behind..

where viable, rail transit better serves the community and reduces highway congestion.. a bus carries between 40-50 passengers.. a single rail car can carry up to double the capacity of buses.. a number of buses traveling along a highway during rush hours merely serve to transfer the auto congestion to bus congestion.. an 8-car transit train would carry approx. 640 passengers; to carry the same load would require 16 buses.. at rail stops, passengers may transfer to buses which would carry them to areas not served by rail transit.. rail service to outlying areas make it possible for residents to commute to the population centers at all hours of day and night.. workers and those seeking a night of entertainment can ride to town in the early evening and return on a late-night schedule to any point along the line.. this increases human traffic while minimizing road traffic.. a rail transit schedule could allow multi-car trains at 15-20 minute intervals; loading / unloading 640 riders four times an hour would move a more than a typical amount of people at peak hours.. it stands to reason that such efficiency in local transportation would attract more riders and a greater need for a sophisticated, far-reaching plan that allows for added traffic and extended routing.. such a well-executed plan would no doubt attract attention from distant population centers asking for support in their local transit issues.. such a local system in charleston could serve as a model nation-wide.. even in planning and design stages, the care and consideration given local communities by allowing input from govts., citizens, et.al., could be a template for a "how-to" to be used by other organizations needing similar help with their local traffic tie-ups..

the economy of scale achieved by a rail transit initiative cannot be marginalized in the charleston area.. the area needs better ways to transport hundreds, even thousands of passengers in a fast, safe and commendable system which pleases riders for scheduling, comfort, safety, convenient and enjoyable trips.. the time to begin a rail transit plan is now.. to confine transit improvements to bus routes and scheduling is not only short-sighted, it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy of failure, as the increasing ridership will cause a "bus-only" transit system to collapse under its own weight.. buses can only carry so much of the load, and the roads can only carry so many buses.. the roads must not only carry the expanded transit buses, they must also carry the otherwise traffic that will be there, and also increasing on a daily basis.. a "bus-only" transit system will be a short-lived panacea which will fizzle in a few years, when the number of buses cannot support the number of riders.. the expense and maintenance of maintaining such a transit fleet and including the bus operators and dispatchers, etc., will eventually become driven to collapse under the weight of needed transit services, the expense of adding more buses, more personnel, bigger repair shops.. where would it end? regret? accusations of wasted funds and resources? "why didnt we do that, when we could have easily done so?" "what do we do now?" also, paying back borrowed money that financed the expanded bus system to begin with; but with routes clogged with buses fighting already-existing traffic, there is a threat of declining transit revenue due to bad publicity from the "over-saturation" of the bus system with too many buses crowding streets and not maintaining on-time schedules..

>> TO EVERYONE IN THE TRI-COUNTY AREA: LETS GET IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME.. SUPPORT A RAIL TRANSIT INITIATIVE AND AN EXPANDED BUS SYSTEM..

>> WE CANNOT LIVE THE GOOD LIFE IN OUR AREA WITHOUT BOTH. 

>> IF YOU THINK EDUCATION IS EXPENSIVE, TRY INDIFFERENCE!!



#8 remoat

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 07:00 PM

** SPECIAL THANKS TO THE  "GLOBAL MODERATOR"  IN HARRISBURG.. DO YOU HAVE , LIKE, A REGULAR NAME? YOUR COMMENTS AND ENTHUSIASM ARE VERY MUCH APPRECIATED. IF I HAD JUST 1 REPLY LIKE YOURS IN THE PAST 18 MONTHS, MY STAMINA WOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH STRONGER TO CONTINUE; BUT, IM STILL HERE AND AM GRATEFUL TO HAVE THIS FORUM TO AIR MY ISSUES.. 
 
charleston is erved by 2 class "a" r.rs.-- norfolk southern and csx.. csx operates 2 pass. trains daily, n-s none.. top speed for commuter rail would approach 30-35mph; cars would be diesel-powered.. total mileage for 2 branches would approx. 100 mi.. as to contracting with the r.rs., they would maintain the r-o-w, offer scheduling support, routing during peak periods and other issues.. insuring a smooth, comfortable ride for commuter rail would be the responsibility of the r.rs.. standards for insuring a right-of-way that provides smooth rides would be similar to the long island r.r.. if its good enough for them, its good enough for us.. both r.rs. operate a single main-line thru the service area.. scheduling 2-way commuter service on the same track with main-line r.rs. would be impractical.. i believe a 2-track system would work and this would be the most expensive part of actual construction.. a 2nd track would be laid for commuter rail use only.. the 2nd track would be used for outbound scheduling to the other end.. the return run would use the main-line of the r.rs.. coordination and scheduling would be complex.. r.r. dispatchers must work closely with rail authority dispatchers to insure safety and staying on-time for both modes.. using the 2nd track for 2-way commuter operations would inhibit scheduling, as a train could not depart until the previous run returned.. this would frustrate peak-hour scheduling.. riders would wait very long periods before the next train could depart..
 
yes, this is a very expensive proposition; there would be much controversy on the cost, the time to build and the value returned to the community.. but, if there is a better solution for charleston's traffic woes, id like to hear it.. when several bridges were being considered for the charleston area, there was much argument on disrupting communities that would be impacted by construction and the completed pathway of the structures.. years were spent on studies, re-studies, impact statements and updated impact statements; anything to obstruct the continuation of the plan as designed.. eventually, the bridges as planned won out, and there is noone who would consider a return to the street plans we had before those bridges were built..
 
its the same with this commuter plan.. im not a builder or contractor.. i know nothing about engineering, project management, funding or any discipline needed to plan, design, build or operate anything like this.. i do know charleston is at the crisis stage for its traffic woes, especially in the north charleston area and outbound to summerville along i-26 and where i-26 and i-526 intersect.. we need a solution and we needed it years ago.. i understand a project of this size is certain to instigate litigation; such is life.. people deserve redress for their grievances, and everybody deserves their day in court.. what must be understood is, we make sacrifices everyday to get something in return-- we compromise.. to get something, you give something.. as projects become larger, costs will increase and people will have grievances to be aired.. i believe much advance planning and interaction with impacted families and businesses can vitiate the pain people feel if their land is needed for the commuter rail system.. the more we talk to people, and the earlier we talk to them, the less pain they will feel and the faster the process will move.. they used to call it "greasing the wheels"..
 
but, i could be wrong!

Edited by remoat, 23 January 2017 - 09:49 PM.


#9 Sloan

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 08:52 AM

 

 

** SPECIAL THANKS TO THE  "GLOBAL MODERATOR"  IN HARRISBURG.. DO YOU HAVE , LIKE, A REGULAR NAME?

Yes, Sloan is my real name.



#10 remoat

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 04:50 AM

I am a Charleston resident for 46 years.  Traffic flow in Charleston is at the gridlock stage. 
I-26, I-526 and other intersections are parking lots every day.  Accidents, construction and bad weather make driving a nightmare.
 
A commuter rail system is the solution.  It would run from Charleston through N. Charleston and Summerville to St. George.  A second branch would run from N. Charleston through Goose Creek to Moncks Corner.  It will cost $600 million and 15 to years to finish.  What is the alternative?  Bus relief is temporary.  Buses couldn't satisfy rider needs if they were lined up all the way to Summerville.  A rail car carries 80 passengers.  A bus carries 40 passengers.  Ten rail cars carry as many passengers as 20 buses, and cheaper, using economy of scale.  More buses mean more drivers, more maintenance, more storage; commuter trains use the same crew and fuel no matter how many cars they pull.  Commuter rail avoids gridlock.  Passengers enjoy their ride as they are not concerned with driving or arriving late.
 
I ask the CARTA Board to request a grant for a project study report on the feasibility of a commuter rail system to serve communities in Charleston, Berkeley and Dorchester counties. 
 
What will happen to the Charleston area without improvements in traffic flow?  Companies won't locate here if their employees cannot move between home and work easily; tourists won't visit here if they cannot move between their hotels and tourist stops.  Our reputation in travel booking agencies will suffer because tourists will leave negative comments with booking agents, facebook pages, local govt. offices, etc.  Retirees wont locate here if they cannot drive between home, doctors' offices and hospitals.  What is the first question people ask each other after arrival?  "How was the traffic?"  No other form of transportation can handle large numbers of people as safely, cheaply and efficiently as commuter rail.
 
The issue of traffic flow in Charleston is not a concern for just one area of the Lowcountry.  What affects one part of our region affects all of us.  Our economy is interwoven among everyone home, every business, every aspect of the Tri-county region.  Traffic concerns everyone, and not merely those who drive to work in a car or work on a delivery truck.  We are all part of what makes the Lowcountry our home.  We must all realize our vested interests in making our homes and offices easy to access, whether to work in, recreate, travel as tourists, or just pass through on the way to somewhere else.  We face not only a challenge but an obligation to insure our roadways are free to drive through.  Clogged roads are as fatal to communites as clogged arteries are fatal to humans.  The sure cure is a commuter rail system.  It will improve traffic flow and reduce gridlock.  It will expedite riders to destinations faster, cheaper and safer than any other mode.  Building it will be expensive, long in completion and fraught with obstacles,  but it is the only system that will endure over the long-term after it is inaugurated.  Commuter trains are flexible in scheduling, highest in passenger capacity and much cheaper on a cost-per-mile basis.  No other mode of transit approaches the effectiveness of commuter rail by any comparison.
 
        IF YOU THINK IMPROVEMENTS ARE EXPENSIVE, TRY INDIFFERENCE !





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