NJT/ACY casino trains to begin summer 2008 Options

[Sloan]

http://pressofatlanticcity.com/top_three/s...p-7430776c.html

[KevinKorell]

While the idea is to attract devout gamblers from New York City to this service, I think that a summer startup would show better ridership numbers than a winter or spring startup. The critics would be all over NJ TRANSIT (despite the fact the line will be heavily subsidized by the casinos) for only attracting a handful of customers willing to pay $100 and be subject to the cold winds off the ocean and the inlet.

I stand by my prediction that if the train initially operates New York to Atlantic City with no stops in between, they will soon realize that more seats could be filled while maintaining a fast schedule, perhaps stopping at Newark, Trenton, and/or Lindenwold. All three would offer transfers with other lines.

$100? NJ TRANSIT themselves runs a #319 express bus between New York and Atlantic City (with one stop in Toms River) at a fare of $32.05 each way, $64.10 round trip. A discounted round trip fare is available for $51 if you make the complete trip the same day. So the train would cost double what their bus costs. The bus takes 2 hours 35 minutes, which is comparable to the train's 2 hours 40 minutes.

[PHL]

In this below map, the track to the North is the NEC headed to Trenton. The track to the East is the NJT track that goes into NJ from PA. The track to the West is the continuation of the NEC and the track to the South is purely freight.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&...p;z=16&om=0

The shore interlock is right where the tracks intersect at Frankford Ave.

How will the trains coming from the North (NYC) make the turn into NJ??? The interlock doesn't allow it. Will the train switch over tracks and then stop and reverse through the interlock? A bit inefficient, but to me it seems to be the only option. Unless the casinos pay Amtrak to build a connector rail to allow Southbound trains to transition to the river crossing and vice versa.

Thinking bigger picture and longer term, this could be a really good way to get people in South Jersey up to New York, too. They could board at Cherry Hill station and take a direct train straight to Manhattan. But that would also require some electrification of the line into NJ.

This post has been edited by PHL: Jan 25 2008, 03:55 PM

[AlanB]

How will the trains coming from the North (NYC) make the turn into NJ??? The interlock doesn't allow it. Will the train switch over tracks and then stop and reverse through the interlock? A bit inefficient, but to me it seems to be the only option. Unless the casinos pay Amtrak to build a connector rail to allow Southbound trains to transition to the river crossing and vice versa.

The train will have an electric motor on one end and a diesel motor on the other end. So they will run out of Penn with the electric motor at the head end, then reverse direction at Shore with the diesel engine now heading up the train and providing the power.

[KevinKorell]

Did Amtrak do a full engine change at Frankford Junction (Shore Interlocking) when they ran their New York-Atlantic City service, or did they operate as above?

It would make sense with the train originating in New York, but in its later years the train originated in Springfield, MA, also diesel territory. So in theory a train could have left Springfield with the diesel in push mode, had an electric put on the front at New Haven (leaving the diesel trailing but turned off), and then at Shore they could have reversed and reactivated the diesel while turning off the electric.

[PHL]

I wonder if there are any longer term plans to build some kind of connector from the bridge to the Northern NEC tracks at Shore interlock. When the 3rd Hudson tunnel is complete, there will be more capacity. I'm sure there's a lot of South Jersey population that would love to see NYC direct service without having to drive to PHL, TTN or Hamilton first.

I remember Amtrak in the 90's running PHL to ACY. But when did they run from NY and points North down to AC? Did that train go all the way to PHL and then reverse to the shore, or did it do something similar?

This post has been edited by PHL: Jan 26 2008, 01:02 PM

[KevinKorell]

I wonder if there are any longer term plans to build some kind of connector from the bridge to the Northern NEC tracks at Shore interlock. When the 3rd Hudson tunnel is complete, there will be more capacity. I'm sure there's a lot of South Jersey population that would love to see NYC direct service without having to drive to PHL, TTN or Hamilton first.

I remember Amtrak in the 90's running PHL to ACY. But when did they run from NY and points North down to AC? Did that train go all the way to PHL and then reverse to the shore, or did it do something similar?

There were several PHL-ACY trips on the schedule. I believe that one daily round trip continued beyond PHL to Harrisburg (and functioned also as one of the Keystone frequencies), and one daily round trip was extended to Washington, and later Richmond. From the outset there was also a daily NYP-ACY trip, which was later extended to originate/terminate at SPG. At that time rather than the "shuttles" we now have between SPG and NHV, most trains either ran through NHV to points south or were combined with/split from a Boston train at NHV. So this train functioned as one of the Springfield-New York trains, but it went to ACY rather than Philly and Washington. The PHL-ACY trips that began or ended at 30th Street Station were later extended to Philadelphia International Airport over a special connecting track (they did not use the flyover that the SEPTA R1 uses), so that Amtrak's trains ran as a code-shared "flight" for Midway Airlines.

As for building a connector at Shore, that area is used mostly as a freight yard, so if they were able to run a connecting track down into the yard the trains would have to creep at yard speed (although that is almost what they now do on the bridge anyhow).

[BillMagee]

Did Amtrak do a full engine change at Frankford Junction (Shore Interlocking) when they ran their New York-Atlantic City service, or did they operate as above?

They did an engine change at Shore (actually, I Street siding).

The train came in from New York under AEM7 power and would leave the main line onto a siding west of Shore on what would be #5 track on the north side of the main line at I Street. The #5 track had been reconstructed as a double-ended stub with catenary to permit the train to completely clear the main line under electric power. A FP40 locomotive was positioned on the east end of the #5 stub track clear of the interlocking with the main #4 track. Once the train was stopped on the #5 track, the FP40 would move up and connect to what was the back of the train from New York. The train would uncouple from the AEM7 and would then cross all four tracks at Shore to the northerly track on the Conrail Delair line and on to ACY. The AEM7 would deadhead to Penn.

Returning from ACY the reverse would take place. The FP40 would push the train through Shore, across the main line, and into the #5 siding. The FP40 would uncouple and move east and then back into still another tail track in the #6 position. The AEM7 would be waiting east on #5 stub track and would back up, couple, and take the train to New York.

[PHL]

That's interesting history. It almost seems like a huge ordeal to do that switch. The new service won't take as long if the locos are both on the train, but it will still be a slow process that will make passengers scratch their heads during the "reversing" to go over the bridge into NJ.

[KevinKorell]

it will still be a slow process that will make passengers scratch their heads during the "reversing" to go over the bridge into NJ.

Only the first time, assuming they fork over the $100 for this trip more than once. On subsequent trips they should expect it.