February 2009 Amtrak Mileage Submissions, and earlier trips. Options

[AlanB]

Sorry to say, but the NJ Transit Atlantic City service only counts toward the Amtrak Mileage Tally when the trip is purchased through Amtrak as part of a itinerary including an Amtrak train and a NJ Transit train to a destination on the Atlantic City Line. In that case, the NJT portion would be covered by an Amtrak-issued ticket. When the NJ Transit Atlantic City Line is used with an NJT ticket, we consider it a commuter train, and commuter trains are not included in the mileage tally.

Well while we didn't connect to an Amtrak train, we did nonetheless use Amtrak issued tickets. One can book the Thruway connection without actually having to connect to an Amtrak train.

So we may be in a grey area here.

[KevinKorell]

Well while we didn't connect to an Amtrak train, we did nonetheless use Amtrak issued tickets. One can book the Thruway connection without actually having to connect to an Amtrak train.

So we may be in a grey area here.

Bill added this rule at the start of 2009:

- Trips on the NJ Transit Atlantic City Line, the Altamont Commuter Express, and the Grand Canyon Railway when part of an Amtrak itinerary and ticketed by Amtrak are eligible. NEW for 2009!

I guess it's how one interprets the term "Amtrak itinerary". To me, an itinerary would be a trip with more than one movement. Thus regardless of how the tickets were obtained, one still would need to be transferring to or from an Amtrak train in Philadelphia for the ACY-PHL segment to count as a Thruway connection.

The other key word is "and". If it said "or" then the trip would have been eligible for points by virtue of the Amtrak-issued ticket. So because only one of the two criteria were met, I would agree the trip is not eligible for inclusion in the tally.

[Long Train Runnin']

My fault I guess I'm not quite ready to join the tally. Not to fault Alan but he said it would count so I figured I would post it, but its not a big deal. Sorry to waste everyones time.

[AlanB]

Well while we didn't connect to an Amtrak train, we did nonetheless use Amtrak issued tickets. One can book the Thruway connection without actually having to connect to an Amtrak train.

So we may be in a grey area here.

Bill added this rule at the start of 2009:

- Trips on the NJ Transit Atlantic City Line, the Altamont Commuter Express, and the Grand Canyon Railway when part of an Amtrak itinerary and ticketed by Amtrak are eligible. NEW for 2009!

I guess it's how one interprets the term "Amtrak itinerary". To me, an itinerary would be a trip with more than one movement. Thus regardless of how the tickets were obtained, one still would need to be transferring to or from an Amtrak train in Philadelphia for the ACY-PHL segment to count as a Thruway connection.

The other key word is "and". If it said "or" then the trip would have been eligible for points by virtue of the Amtrak-issued ticket. So because only one of the two criteria were met, I would agree the trip is not eligible for inclusion in the tally.

Not looking to make and/or create a problem, but in the very next paragraph the word "and" is gone and "or" is in its place.

The following segments are not eligible for Amtrak rail mileage credit:

<--- snipped --->

- Trips on the NJ Transit Atlantic City Line, Altamont Commuter Express, or the Grand Canyon Railway that are not part of an Amtrak itinerary or are not ticketed by Amtrak are not eligible.

And while he hasn't made it official yet, there is this tidbit to be considered.

I'm leaning toward having the ability to earn AGR points be the determining factor for Mileage Tally qualification. If a segment of a bus, train, or covered wagon service earns AGR points, then the miles will count toward the tally. If not, then they don't.

I'm fine with a decision that goes either way, but we do need to be clear here.

[KevinKorell]

I do wonder if AGR will even award the points for that. As we know from experience, it's a hassle to get the points credited when using any Thruway service because non-Amtrak carriers don't scan the bar codes on the tickets. (California's probably an exception because of their massive Thruway program.) It's going to take a phone call to get those points, but even then, they may notice that this segment was not part of a trip involving an Amtrak train.

That Amtrak even sold the ticket exposes a flaw in their online reservations system. The only Thruway services that should be sold by themselves (not in conjunction with an Amtrak train trip) are when a bus substitutes for a train, such as what is currently happening between Jefferson City and Kansas City on the Missouri River Runner.

- Trips on the NJ Transit Atlantic City Line, Altamont Commuter Express, or the Grand Canyon Railway that are not part of an Amtrak itinerary or are not ticketed by Amtrak are not eligible.

This statement is now in the negative sense, stating what is not eligible instead of what is. For the negative of a compound statement with "and", it is correct to use "or". With "or", you only need one of the statements on either side of the "or" to be true. In this case, what is to the left of "or" is true, and what is to the right is false.

I know Bill had good intentions with this rule change, and it's something I agreed with. But I don't think the possibility that Amtrak would sell tickets for a trip solely on NJT came to any of our collective minds. OK Bill, you're the official referee here!

[BillMagee]

My fault I guess I'm not quite ready to join the tally. Not to fault Alan but he said it would count so I figured I would post it, but its not a big deal. Sorry to waste everyones time.

Stephen, you did not waste my time. I enjoy a good debate and I learned something new - Amtrak does indeed sell tickets for a single trip from PHL to the NJT Atlantic City Line destinations. You cannot buy an NJT Atlantic City Line ticket from Amtrak that does not include PHL as either the origin or destination, but if you are starting or ending at PHL, you can book through Amtrak. I even bet you can finally force AGR points to be awarded but, like Kevin stated above, it may take some prodding.

My rules state that to count for the mileage tally a trip on the NJ Transit AC line must (a) be part of an Amtrak itinerary and (b) be ticketed by Amtrak. Technically speaking, a single segment is an "itinerary", and your trip was on an Amtrak ticket. Accordingly, I am going to award you 68 miles for your journey on the PRR's steel speedway to the shore. I may rewrite the rule for 2010 to require use of an Amtrak train (assuming I'm not sacked), but for 2009 your trip, and others like it, will count. I don't see a huge influx of NJT travel as a result. If so, maybe we can get some credit from NJT.

So, after much ado, welcome to the OTOL Mileage Tally! I see elsewhere that you have a nice trip coming up in April. We look forward to your miles.

Stephen : your Amtrak Mileage Tally submission has been recorded as follows:

14-Feb-09 : Amtrak Connection 7874 Thruway Train (NJT); from Atlantic City (NJ Transit), NJ to Philadelphia (30th Street Station), PA ; 68 miles

This submission added 1 segment and 68 miles to your 2009 totals.
Your 2009 totals are 1 segment and 68 miles.
Your 2009 mileage is 0.7% of 9,556 miles submitted by all participants to date.
You are presently ranked 16 out of 16 participants.

[Long Train Runnin']

So, after much ado, welcome to the OTOL Mileage Tally! I see elsewhere that you have a nice trip coming up in April. We look forward to your miles.[/color][/i]

Thanks! hopefully I can do better then last place but gotta start somewhere. I look forward to my future trips

This post has been edited by Long Train Runnin': Feb 18 2009, 10:09 PM

[AlanB]

Bill,

In that case, please also add the same for me to my tally, as I was on that same train with Stephen.

2/14/09 ACY-PHL Train 7874 68 miles.

Thanks.

[BillMagee]

Alan : your Amtrak Mileage Tally submission has been recorded as follows:

14-Feb-09 : Amtrak Connection 7874 Thruway Train (NJT); from Atlantic City (NJ Transit), NJ to Philadelphia (30th Street Station), PA ; 68 miles

This submission added 1 segment and 68 miles to your 2009 totals.
Your 2009 totals are 2 segments and 142 miles. Your 2008 totals were 31 segments and 16,283 miles
Your 2009 mileage is 1.5% of 9,556 miles submitted by all participants to date.
You are presently ranked 10 out of 16 participants.

[Rumpled]

Another trip to a hockey game. This time the home team lost in a lackluster effort. We are rapidly falling out of the playoffs. Looks like I might not be going to playoff games and my miles will go down.


18-Feb-09 : Amtrak Train 785 Pacific Surfliner; from Irvine, CA to Anaheim, CA ; 15 miles

18-Feb-09 : Amtrak Train 796 Pacific Surfliner; from Anaheim, CA to Irvine, CA; 15 miles